React and Remix Choose Different Futures

> Breaking backward compatibility isn't collateral damage, it's the point.

LOL, if you say so.

Honestly, I don't know how anyone decides to build something on top of the software the react router team puts out. I went through approximately 2 major version upgrades of react router then decided I was done with it unless I had no other choice.

Why do people think being left with huge upgrade tech debt time and time again is worthwhile? There are just so many other choices out there these days. Why you'd choose this "different future" now is beyond me.

I didn't know there was a new version of Remix distinct from React Router until I read this post. I thought React Router v7 was Remix merging back in, and that the Remix brand was dead.

If they're looking to have a Remix v3 distinct from React Router, they probably shouldn't have

> The latest version of Remix is now React Router v7

at the top of all their docs.

It seems like they need the self-awareness to say "if we have gotten it so wrong that we needed to drastically lift and change the foundation multiple times, then maybe we need to rethink our first principles"

> Remix 3 chose Simplicity

i have no dog in this fight and am friends with both but i think this is probably too much leaning into Remix's messaging. i think easier to think about it as "Complex inside" (React) vs "Complex outside" (Remix) - pull up a bunch of equivalent side by side code examples of both to see (this was basically all of react twitter in the month since remix relaunched)

of course React has let the complexity leak and leak and leak over the last 5 years so now the messaging isnt as neat

This is what they should have done: what is now React Router v7 should have been Remix v3, and what is now Remix v3 should have had a new name - it's a new framework that ostensibly makes different choices, new name is a must! They told us for years that Remix is just React Router with additional framework features. That made sense.

What is the value proposition of Remix 3 then? If it's going to be incompatible with the official React ecosystem, why use Remix instead of more performant alternatives like Solid/SolidStart that don't have React's baggage?

I love the idea of converge with the web and also like the simplicity of being able to see what is happening. I've also experienced the despair or having to debug the internals of a library or a wrapper of a wrapper of a wrapper somebody thought was a good idea to make. But I wonder how the future in a LLM powered world could look like. Will LLMs privilege code that require less tokens to read and to write? Will verbosity become a monetary problem? Will short implicit Frameworks take the lead? I wonder if frameworks will start to optimize for machines or people.

I’ve been enjoying Vue recently. Its API so far feels like an acceptable cognitive overhead over the raw DOM.

Plus, Evan You seems like a pretty stable and drama free maintainer.

It mystifies me why Mithril isn’t used more - this sounds more and more like Mithril

Well I hope Shopify will have enough third party app developers in the future, now that they have moved everything to GraphQL and Remix (and killed all the other SDKs, like PHP for example), and now that we willhave a non-React Remix soon.

Im pretty sure not many devs will switch to Remix just to work on Shopify Apps…

> Simplicity (explicitly control when things update)

I’m not saying this is wrong, but it’s a very very weird notion of simplicity. It reminds me a bit of how C++ engineers argue that for loops are simpler than comprehensions.