alt Hacker NewsAsk HN: How can we solve the loneliness epidemic?
Countless voiceless people sit alone every day and have no one to talk to, people of all ages, who don't feel that they can join any local groups. So they sit on social media all day when they're not at work or school. How can we solve this?
Comments
Can we please make this HN discussion stay open forever. This is one of those threads which has clicked me the most. I thank the creator of this a lot. A lot of these comments are super insightful and I wish to talk but I feel and explain my situation but I always sometimes feel like it takes a mental toll. I sincerely love this discussion and have gone I think 75% aruond and its so great to see people similar to us
I wish if this post could perhaps be made an exception or similar where people can talk about this for longer. Perhaps its just me but I wish for something like this avenue in some more time (perhaps right now I feel a bit closed off for some reason) where I wish to talk but words don't come out so much.
I don't know if I am walking around the bush on what I would wish to talk about here because of it right now. I have been trying to screenshot all the posts I could find which are great here and I just don't know, I just want this HN thread/discussion to stay open forever so that I can talk here a month in or two months in when I feel even more comfortbale
The point I am trying to say is that I was losing hope in HN and every social media because of botting and other issues and just lack of trust and direction and irl interactions are few and between. This feels such a great thread and I appreciate the author (I saw their work on their website which is phenomenal)
In a way, I think atleast this thread will help solve or atleast help me (or that's how I feel) in loneliness epidemic and I am grateful for that but I just want this to stay forever.
One of the issues I have in creating a special place for talks like these is that I see very few people sign in//sign up or talk. HN has lots of users and I got some really insightful answers here.
I think its technically possible and I just want the moderators to do this once. Dang if you are reading this, I genuinely hope that you can keep this thread permanent/long time. Loneliness is a real concern and I just feel that some people are unable to reach out (perhaps me right now) and definitely need some right place and right time and if this could just stay or (stay longer at the very least) I would deeply appreciate it sir
Ban advertising based business models.
I think people in general need to stop letting differences rip them apart from each other. I've seen countless friendships crumble over stupid things like politics. (I'm not saying politics is stupid overall, but I do think it's stupid to let it affect a relationship, except in extreme situations). I'm not talking about the Neo-Nazi who openly expresses hatred towards other races, or the extreme other end who insists that anything other than full throated and vocal activism makes you a bad person. Those people are toxic and should be avoided. IME that's like 1% of the population if not less.
Social media has (IMHO) exacerbated this by allowing us to selectively surround ourselves with people we know we'll agree with. It's a nice reprieve sometimes, but it's so, so unhealthy beyond short-term.
Also talking to people in-person is very important. The less you do it, the harder it is, but it's worth doing. The natural humanizing effect of conversing with a person in meat-space does wonders for increasing understanding. Don't talk about topics you disagree on, focus on agreements and common interests. A good friend of mine is a trans-woman married to a woman. She decided to get into target shooting and approached others in good faith, and she said something like (not a direct quote): "I was worried they would be assholes, but it turns out they're just nerds like me, they just love to kit out their rigs".
Another friend of mine fell into the right-wing youtube rabbit-hole and "infiltrated" an Antifa group. He's a good guy overall, but got a very clouded exposure to "the other side." After he was done, he said something like (not a direct quote) "I was actually really surprised at how accepting, respectful, and intellectual most of them were. We wouldn't agree on politics, but they were a lot more interested in real analysis and dealing in facts than I ever would have thought, and we ended up having some good conversations."
Yes there are going to be assholes out there, but give people a chance before jumping to conclusions. You might be surprised! Don't jump in the deep end all at once, and be mindful of personal danger and comfort-level, but don't be so afraid to reach out to humans (in-person) and try to connect, even if you think on the surface there's no way you could get along.
phone screen time < 2 hr/day
no one hitting that target has a shortage of friends
everyone missing that target does
I normally don't contribute to HN comments these days (too much anger in the comments section) but I appreciate your post and activities.
I am a tail-end boomer in the U.S. so my experiences were with a world where socializing was more functional: we shopped in public, played in public, read in public libraries, watched movies in public, rode transit together, etc. Being in public was a requirement, not a choice. While there are still remnants of this older culture still active in today's world in urban life, there are so many options for not being in public that it is simply easier to avoid it. We all want our space in one degree or another.
On the playground growing up, my world was filled with name-calling and backbiting. I was a heavier kid, so that was my burden. Other kids had bucked teeth, warts, limps, they were too short, or too tall, uncoordinated--whatever--nobody really escaped the wrath of the crowd. We were forced, by our parents, to just deal with it.
My parents like many others in their generation recognized this behavior for what it was--natural. Watch an episode of the Little Rascals--you will see what I am referring to.
Most if not all of those kids who were called names and isolated in some way found ways to break out of their pigeon hole: playing sports, playing music, making art, studying hard at school, boxing, singing, dancing, cracking jokes, whatever. Then they were heroes, and the crowd could celebrate them--and they thrived.
I know this sounds overly idealistic, but it is true. I experienced this first hand in a neighborhood of several hundred kids from broken homes, poor homes, ethnic homes, etc.
Voiceless people must find their voice. The responsibility is their's. The crowd will not come to the rescue of the person who won't stand up for themselves and make their way in life.
Loneliness is very, very sad. The cure to loneliness is in the powerful hands of the lonely person. Do whatever it takes, as long as it takes, to work on those things that hold the lonely person back from achieving something--anything--for themselves and then engage with the crowd with more confidence.
I appreciate what you are doing by helping others--that is one of your superpowers. Live a good, strong life!
Universal Basic Tokens allowance?
Loneliness is a symptom of the loss of the third place. You can't solve loneliness, but we can as a society look at why many have lost their place for socializing.
Hyperfocus on productivity, the one dimensional man that know only rest and work, and the rise of narcisism and hyper individuality, all causes of the loss of the third place.
Everyone needs to take on the quest to find where they belong, but society needs to give people time to invest in this quest.
So I think it's as simple as working less and spending more time with people.
Affordable home ownership, shorter work weeks, fund community activities, create more spaces where people can hang out without spending money, subsidise childcare.
Every facet of capitalism is trying to push individualism and consumption
Probably not with technology.
Idk, probably some kind of app.
The people who push "no hello" on their co-workers and want to stay home all day are lonely now. Shucks.
Find a local church, start going, and join whatever groups they have that fit your demo / interests.
We can solve it with an app.
Open very large disco techs.
I’m quite lonely nowadays. Partially by my nature of being somewhat introvert and partially due to some years of depression where I mostly shut everyone out, leading to more or less no friends anymore. I see a couple guys sometimes for coffee during weekends but that’s all I do socially. It doesn’t get easier to find new friends when you’re 50+, so better do the work while you’re young. I’m mostly fucked by now.
I’ve seen the numbers, but honestly it’s pretty wild for me to read this thread. Many people’s stories paint a picture in my mind of lives that feel devoid of richness, almost like watching an advertisement or a sitcom.
Sadly, I come across this rarely in my everyday life. It would be a richer experience for me to have a more balanced sense of how people are doing.
I was mercifully spared from aloneness by having a powerful and outgoing best friend as a child, and by a nature that ruthlessly seeks “where the action is.” That said, I used to often feel alone when I was with people, specifically. I now call this “feeling unseen,” and it took me a long time to learn that, though sometimes I was just with the wrong people, much of the time it was because I wasn’t expressing myself authentically.
I’ve long since moved to the Bay Area, which, while an odd place, does offer many ladders out of the predicament of disconnection. There are many ways to actively learn the skills of connection here—through therapy, community practice, and structured relational work—and I practiced enough that I can now teach. Many people also learn and deepen their own skills by interacting with the community I’m part of.
The question of whether there’s a solution ... well, when one becomes acquainted with the field of learning the underlying skills that can address loneliness—which goes by many names and has many purported aims—it turns out that the path is well-mapped from pretty much every perspective, and in ways tailored for most types of people. Some of the best books are international best-sellers, and you can just go buy them and read them.
I don’t think the solution, per se, is unknown. The issue seems to be that people don’t know they can help themselves, or don’t believe they can, or perhaps in some cases lack the resources or support to get help.
Most people, I think, are afraid. And if I had to guess at why this seems more common than it once was, it’s probably because many people are no longer being forced by circumstance to confront their fears in the way previous generations often were.
It also seems to me that this is an inevitable result of our urban planning and the rising effective cost of housing since the ’70s.
If you’re such a person reading this who finds themselves alone, the main thing I have to say is: far more is possible than it probably feels like right now. I’ve seen many miracles happen, and correspondingly very few failures among those I’ve seen genuinely try. Paths to wholeness are innumerable—and what worked for me probably won’t work for you—but if you keep trying, there’s a good chance you’ll find yourself somewhere adjacent to where I find myself now: with more love and connection in my life than I know what to do with.
The path begins with acknowledging your fear, and learning to feel and see it as a guide. This doesn’t mean leaping off a cliff; it often starts very small. Go toward what feels terrifying, what feels cringe, what you dismiss or push away. Investigate those things and find out for yourself what’s really there. Once you begin doing this, the path becomes obvious ... it’s right in front of you.
Ban cell phones worldwide.
Be a part of (IRL) groups.
This is an individual problem and an individual's responsibility to solve, imo (Although I do think it's interesting to consider whether a project, company, or initiative could help make this easier to solve for millions.)
Regardless, there are four steps worth taking as an individual: (1) go out, (2) make friends, (3) turn friends into community, and (4) maintain community.
If you're feeling lonely, you're probably failing at one step along this chain.
1. Going out. I don't have a lot of tips here. Except to go to things that actually facilitate interacting with strangers. Don't just go to a bar or go work from a cafe. Go to a meet and greet, an event for strangers to mingle, etc. Or, if you're having trouble motivating yourself to go out, then that's something inside yourself to work on. I find that a shakeup to your life routine (e.g. moving cities, going on a vacation) can provide a good window to change your habits, where you'll start doing things you don't normally do in your home city.
2. Making friends. This one is simple but hard for some. Basically: be personable, smile, engage in conversation, ask questions, be interested, avoid being threatening or clingy, dress and stylish normal-ish unless you really don't want to, etc. Then talk to people at these events, and if seems like you'd like hanging with them and have things in common, ask to exchange numbers.
3. Turn friends into community. IMO this is where you go from the basics into the advanced, and where the most benefits lie. However, most people stop after #2, even though this step is easier than steps #1 or #2, and is extremely rewarding. Community is an in-person social network. The number of connections between people in a community determines the strength and stickiness of that community. Thus it's very important that you introduce your friends to other friends. For example, instead of going on a coffee date with a friend once every month or two, invite 2 or 3 friends to dinner. This has numerous benefits. All of your friends will meet each other, and suddenly they'll know who you're talking about when you mention other people. Also, conversation is easier when there are more people. Also, you'll find events and hangs happen more often, because (a) more people are able to initiate them, and (b) there's more reason to go. People are more motivated to go and less motivated to cancel when there's an event that allows them to see multiple friends at once.
4. Maintain community. People move away. People have silly fights and disagreements and stop talking to each other. People get into relationships and disappear. People get sick, or old, or antisocial, and disappear. Shit happens. So you have to keep doing steps #2 and #3, at least occasionally, forever. You don't necessarily need to do step #1 as much, since the people in your community will naturally bring friends and whatnot to your events. But you still need to get to know these people, exchange numbers, and invite them to future events.
Volunteer
> Countless voiceless people sit alone every day and have no one to talk to, people of all ages, who don't feel that they can join any local groups. So they sit on social media all day when they're not at work or school. How can we solve this?
Solve what? This is the world I have always dreamed of, before even computers became a thing in my life and community. I initially approximated it with books.
Find what you love to do
undo urbanization, education, and technology. retvrn to monke.
I think this is fine? I’m pretty quiet in my real life but I do talk about here.
Move to Latin America
Obviously, someone has to create a nice big corp which would make us nice LLM friends and family members, yes, yes, yes!
on the topic of platonic friendship, I couldn’t disagree more with a lot of the comments. I have plenty of friends yet I don’t do clubs and will never, ever do organized religion. People advising it are religious freaks in my opinion. Some of my best friends took this advice to go to church and bible study. They complain every time I see them about the people in their church. Meanwhile I’ve made more and better friends online. Its not hard, get on social media, find an influencer/streamer that matches your vibes and go jump into the official or adjacent discord community and play video games with people in that community. If you engage in active listening and are a decent person, you will easily make plenty of friends. Additionally, I think in person hangouts are kinda mid, but I hangout with my friends in-person (at a minimum) every other day when I weight lift. Like seriously, I often would rather chill in Discord than go and hang out in-person.
To me the male loneliness epidemic is more about a lack of ability to find meaningful romantic relationships. I’ve been thinking about this a lot, and as somebody who has been doing online dating since it essentially started, I am pretty sure that the problem (or at least a major piece) is that match group has commodified romantic relationships.
I know a lot of people will focus on meeting people in public or whatever, but it has been my experience that dating has become completely garbage and a large part is because all of the current popular dating apps disallow index search and funnel you into swiping. From a mate selection perspective this makes no sense. Not only does it muddy the waters about who is actually a real match, but it also does psychic damage to make so many shallow judgements.
Back before match group bought OkCupid, I used to have excellent results finding people their who shared a lot of common ground with, messaging them with a thoughtful message, and going on dates. Swiping is an absolute crap shoot, and often I feel like I am being used.
Not with technology.
Maybe increase the living conditions for people under 60?
All this talk is just about the symptoms, but the cause is that young people are born into a deeply unfair world where losing is by design (so that the baby boomers can continue to profit).
If someone in their 20 can start a family without being financially broken, things will improve.
I like to hang around at my local skate park.
I'm not very good on a skateboard, better on a BMX. In any case the vibes are usually good.
Sometimes you think people aren't even noticing you, till you finally land the trick you're working on and a total stranger yells 'whoo!'
I think old-school chat rooms might be a solution to this.
I was going to post this somewhere else, but I think this story fits.
An old guy approached me and said "put the music on my phone mann".
Alright.
My response: "Search on YouTube"
He keeps insisting on ME doing it for him.
3 steps
First his data was off. For presumably a while he's had his data off ( it's metro PCs so it's prepaid anyway) and I guess he was relying on WiFi.
Ok.
One click to fix that in the Android tile menu.
His Bluetooth was off too.
Turn that on. Turn on his headphones. Luckily it was already paired.
Finally I had to open YouTube and find music for him.
3 or 4 steps.
Now he's happily listening to music.
But beyond that, he got to introduce himself to me, and I guess the next time he accidentally turns off his data he can ask for help again.
I also like to help people.
Old people are awesome when it comes to this. They'll just ask someone to help them out, that's how you build community.
Don't know how to change your oil ? Cool Billy's a car guy he can help you out. Having trouble with your water pressure, maybe Sarah's a plumber and she can help.
Of course if something serious you're still going to be expected to pay these people, but if it's something quick they'll help you free of charge. Maybe you'll bake them a cake for their kids birthday.
I recall when I was young a neighbor basically gave my mom a car. It was an absolute piece of crap, and out of the goodness of his heart he would come and fix it every now and then.
I didn't realize it as a kid, but if you're passionate about cars and you get the emotional satisfaction of both helping a neighbor and seeing how long you can keep that old car running, that's its own reward.
How many of you would love for a non technical neighbor to say their computer is slow. I recall someone on HN even offering to send out a free laptop to someone in need.
Traditionally communities would have a blacksmith or a baker. That's what that person did and they had a status tied to it.
In modern economic systems what exactly we do is so abstracted away from anything meaningful we lack this connection.
On a very fundamental level people need to feel needed.
TLDR: Help others.
Make as many third places as you can. People need to get out to do other things than work, and these should be low cost activities. If you introduce subscriptions and then ramp up prices, then you are the scum of the world.
I have 2 answers to this, depending on how you define "loneliness epidemic"
Genuine loneliness, like what you described, can only really be solved by touching grass. Figure out your hobbies, or find one if you don't have any.
My answer to what a lot of people call "the male loneliness epidemic" as a woman is to say it doesn't exist, you need to figure out how to be attractive. We aren't throwing ourselves on shitty men, and most of the men that complain are complaining because they feel entitled to us and thus put no effort into being attractive. The quickest way to be attractive is have empathy and not be a douche. Listen to peoples needs, and don't feel entitled to our attention
i always thought I had avoided this issue. then i moved to a new town. starting with zero friends in a new town, with very little in place as far as shows, groups, etc, it seems quite a bit harder than it was 20 years ago. meetup used to work but it has become a cesspool of zoom calls and pay meetings. i wish i knew a really good answer (and i dont drink so bars dont have the appeal. by the time i get off of work coffee shops are closed)
i love people and do not want to be alone.
go outside, talk to people
Get a bike
Alcohol.
Church.
together
Telos
go volunteer. they're needed everywhere. problem solved. most able-bodied lonely people are that way because they can't be arsed to get off the damn couch. they would just rather discuss loneliness on social media. I can't be arsed either, but I don't feel lonely when I'm alone, which is the majority of the time.
I love this wholesome post
Its an issue that is caused by many factors which are mostly related to the way our large scale societies are structured and ran, but I believe it will be solved very soon... By AI. first disclaimer, I am not advocating one way or the other for this just spelling out what I see on the horizon. Very soon AI systems will become a lot more sophisticated then your average chat bot. We will interact with them naturally through voice and they will become more capable in expressing the various nuances of the human speech, conversation cadence, etc... This is where humans will find solace. In fact i believe AI will be a humans best friend, lover, parent, child, etc.... as technology progresses and these things get embodied and so on. This year alone I expect the start of mass adoption of voice agents. But yeah, that's the way i see things play out. If I am right and things go this way, and you are interacting with these things, the smart move is to make sure you own the full stack 100% and not use the api related nonsense that will eventually brainwash you for this or that reason. If you are gonna dig a hole at least dig one that doesn't have the obvious traps in it.
marijuana bars
Get outside and touch grass?
"Who don't feel that they can join any local groups"
There's your problem. Fix that.
If there aren't any local groups then help create one. If there are, go along, meet some people, see what works for you, join a different one if you didn't like the first one, keep going until you've found your people.
If you feel like you can't go to a group then create a support group for people who feel like they can't go to groups. Or go online and find the virtual space for people like you and then travel to see those people (or invite them to see you).
But there is no fix for you having to socialise if you're lonely. You're going to have to find a way in.