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quailfarmeryesterday at 5:38 AM9 repliesview on HN

The tightness of hardware integration isn't a bug, it's genuinely a feature; In fact, it's the defining feature that makes Apple hardware great. Socketed RAM, CPU, and Storage just weren't worth the tradeoffs, namely size, weight, cost, and performance. Including those modular interfaces just wasn't worth it when the internal interfaces would be obsolete within 5 years, and the average user was replacing sub-components 0 times over the life of the device.

The user being able to swap parts easily is _neat_ but it's just not an required feature, any more than the user of a car being able to easily hot-swap the engine. The right level of integration provides a tradeoff the maximizes reliability, cost, performance, and repair. A professional can still replace almost any component of a modern laptop, with a few thousand $ of specialized tools, and the battery, the only component with a fixed lifetime, can be easily replaced at home.

I really hope Framework can continue to develop hardware with documented repairability, without falling for the myth that tight integration and quality are mutually exclusive.


Replies

xandriusyesterday at 9:54 AM

If being able to replace a part requires me to have a screwdriver (literally a Philips one should do), the component, and no additional PhD or bravery coming from youth, inexperience or both, I will welcome it with open arms.

Right now, having devices which require both expertise and expensive machinery means that the cost of going to someone to repair it will increase over 10 folds, making a full replacement a financial and sound choice.

If my CPU doesn't last for 10 years but I can change it myself in minutes, I would rather that than throwing away everything else I still love and is still functional just for promised extended reliability (which is just a matter of statistics and profit margins at the end of the day).

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masswerkyesterday at 12:30 PM

That said, I've a MacPro 3.1 in production (also 17 years now – always up), which is from Apple's era of easily (or even hot) swappable parts. Apart from failing 3rd party RAM, no issues ever. – And I'm probably going to upgrade the drives to SSD (still HDD) this year, since you can still get new upgrade parts for its ancient busses.

(And for the failing RAM: open the hood, a LED tells you which strip is failing, swap it, close, go on… The build quality is quite amazing, BTW.)

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zenolijoyesterday at 6:36 AM

> A professional can still replace almost any component of a modern laptop, with a few thousand $ of specialized tools, and the battery, the only component with a fixed lifetime, can be easily replaced at home.

Even if a professional can fix it, that expertise to be able to use those tools worth "a few thousand dollars" costs a lot too, likely pushing the price high enough that its worth thinking about buying a new device instead.

While the battery might be the only thing with a fixed lifetime, other components often also break. I was unlucky and owned a ThinkPad with one soldered on RAM module and one socketed slot to be able to upgrade the RAM, but that didn't help the day that the soldered on RAM died on me.

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myaccountonhnyesterday at 7:48 AM

I think it's an attitude worth challenging. The minerals required to build these laptops are limited, and one day we will have to realize this and care for what we own.

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bkoryesterday at 7:26 AM

> Socketed RAM

CUDIMM is changeable and fast.

> The user being able to swap parts easily is _neat_ but it's just not an required feature

Mostly because people seem to have forgotten that it was possible. Often laptops are slow to due either a too full disk and/or not enough memory. It used to be more common to upgrade those. But apparently that knowledge/skill is forgotten and it's now more custom to buy a new device.

Being able to change those saves money IMO.

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porphyrayesterday at 6:21 PM

The physical socket also introduces a new point of failure. In the olden days there was often "ram was bad but taking it out and reseating it in the socket fixed it", which can be avoided by just having it be on the same physical chip.

notpushkinyesterday at 8:29 AM

For storage in particular, iBoff made an adapter for NAND chips that places them on a carrier board: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3N-z-Y8cuw

The whole setup (allegedly) fits inside original chassis, too, and disk speeds are about the same. So the only real tradeoffs for Apple are cost and the fact that user can swap in third party parts instead of paying obscene prices Apple charges for spec upgrades.

timewizardyesterday at 8:05 AM

Since display technology does not update as fast as CPU technology, and keyboard technology rarely updates anymore at all, you might still expect the entire mainboard assembly to be upgradeable.

Would certainly be more "green."

globular-toastyesterday at 6:33 AM

Sad but true. Most people don't do much with the things they own, even if they can. Cars get serviced when they are told to, by someone else. No modifications are done. It's a weird thing to me because you get the downsides of ownership (liability for servicing and repairs) but none of the upsides.

I wish more people took direct control over their lives. But many are just happy to not think and put up with whatever they get.

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