> The anti-abortion people do not care about actual outcomes. There's no interest in safer obstetrics or early years care or preventing school shootings, they're hyper-focused only on abortion.

That is consistent with the position. School shootings are explicitly banned and there'd be a strong consensus that obstetrics should be done to a high standard.

Someone has to draw a line between sperm and human for when the anti-murder laws kick in. The line is fundamentally arbitrary except for 2 logical points (moment of conception and actual birth [0]) that are broadly unpopular choices. It is certainly easy to disagree with any particular line choice but it is all but impossible to rank them theoretically except by letting the political process play out.

[0] Theoretically we could even find a third one and draw the line some time significantly after birth when awareness really starts to build up; but that is a can of worms no-one wants to open because babies are very lovable and probably protected by hard-coded emotions built up from evolutionary pressure.

It's really simple to me:

- abortion should only be allowed if needed because of health or exceptional cases like rape - abortion should not be used as a form of birth control, use condoms or the morning-after pill

I'm fine with states deciding the details. I think it should be mandated that it's always allowed when health is in danger (I believe this is already true), and it should be mandated that even if a state allows abortion "just by choice" (so, as birth control), it should definitely not be allowed after 9 months even.

> The anti-abortion people do not care about actual outcomes.

I'm anti-abortion, but I really, really do care about outcomes. So if you want to discuss this with me, I'd love to.

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> You get people who think life is so sacred abortion should be banned allied with people who'd like to see an AR-15 under every pillow

I don't understand the problem with this... Not wanting to kill unborn life but still wanting to be able to protect yourself and your family when someone breaks into your house.

It's statements like this that make me question the intellectual honesty of people. It doesn't take much thinking to understand it, right?

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