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MetaWhirledPeas04/03/20257 repliesview on HN

> the parties policies are aiming to realize fundamentally different visions of the world, based on fundamentally different values

This is an incorrect and cynical statement. I understand why you feel this way (for one thing, it's the exact type of language coming out of many of each party's idealists) but it's simply false.

One party supports gun rights while the other supports gun control. Those aren't values. Democrats want to pursue safety from guns. Republicans want to pursue safety from tyranny. Both sides care about personal safety.

Abortion rights is about personal liberty. Gun rights are also about personal liberty. Both sides care about personal liberty.

The competing talking points aren't always conveniently about the same issue though. For Democrats their border policies are about compassion and human rights. For Republicans their border policies are about domestic prosperity.

Do Republicans care about human rights? Yes. Do Democrats care about domestic prosperity? Yes. To pretend otherwise is to willfully push apart the tribes in your own mind, and to trivialize the perspective of the opposition.

The real problem is the one you are contributing to: the unwillingness to empathize. Empathy is the only way to come to a compromise. With a little empathy you might even find that you have to compromise less because you might actually convince someone of your argument, for once.


Replies

daanlo04/03/2025

Imho opinion, what you are describing are republicans of the past. As parent says, there used to be shared values. Two of the shared valued were peaceful transition of power and respect for the rule of law / division of power between executive, legislative and judiciary.

Imho the values of MAGA republicans are clearly distinct from GWB republicans (even if it may be precisely the same voters). Specifically the two values described above are no longer shared values.

I believe there are more, but for the two values above we have irrevocable proof.

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popalchemist04/03/2025

While you broadly make a great point, there are psychological dimensions to take into consideration. Some people's personalities are more inclined toward tribalistic thinking and will extend their capacity for empathy only toward their own in-group, while others are capable of expanding the "in-group" to include all of humanity. So while it may be true to say that Republicans care about human rights, it is more accurate to say they care about their OWN human rights, and not the rights of people outside their in-group.

If you want to remove the political labeling from this statement, about 30% of the population "thinks" (or, rather, does not think, but acts) this way, and it is important to realize that the motivating factor differs between them and the other type of human, who cares about people in the abstract.

vendiddy04/04/2025

I think this is spot on.

I feel like folks on both sides would stop talking past each other if they were willing to understand the other POV rather than dismissing it as crazy.

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watwut04/04/2025

> Republicans want to pursue safety from tyranny.

Not true. This is simply not what they want.

> Democrats want to pursue safety from guns. Republicans want to pursue safety from tyranny. Both sides care about personal safety.

Republicans wants to ensure their opponents are sufficiently tyrannized. They care much less about safety, systematically. They even openly look down on those who care about safety, not seeing them sufficiently manly.

> Do Republicans care about human rights?

Not much. Openly not much so, Musk called empathy the biggest weakness of western civilization. Trumps and Musks moves clearly do not care about human rights, republicans stand by them.

> Do Democrats care about domestic prosperity? Yes.

Yup, they do. I am not really sure about republicans anymore, given last moves.

> The real problem is the one you are contributing to: the unwillingness to empathize. Empathy is the only way to come to a compromise. With a little empathy you might even find that you have to compromise less because you might actually convince someone of your argument, for once.

These people vote for Trump and Vance and see empathy as a weakness. That is not compromise, that is capitulation to a lie. You want one side to dominate and have everything they do excused. The other one should be nice, submissive and empathetic. But this is based on lies - lies about what republicans actually do and lies about their motivation. Lies to make them sound better. And lies about what democrats actually do - lies to make them sound worst.

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Miraste04/03/2025

Abortion rights is about religion-as clear a difference in values as one can have.

misiti378004/03/2025

bingo!

dbingham04/03/2025

This was true a decade ago. It is no longer true.

The modern Trump controlled Republican party is not a party that cares about personal liberties. It is a fascist, authoritarian project that is toying with straight up Nazism. They are explicitly pulling from the Nazi playbook in their language and strategy of attack on the rule of law. Someone who supports that party is supporting a completely different set of values from someone who opposes it.

That said, that party is also backed by a powerful and effective propaganda machine that has successfully pulled the wool over many people's eyes such that they don't fully realize what it is they are supporting.

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