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kqr04/24/20254 repliesview on HN

This comment shows what is wrong with people's understanding of futures markets. Commodity futures are not for the supply of commodities. If you need a supply of commodities, cash contracts are your thing.

Futures, specifically, are useful for implicitly borrowing commodities to control inventory levels across time. An airline needs continuous access to jet fuel, so to be safe, they buy more jet fuel than they need in the cash market. But they don't want to pay for owning all this jet fuel, so they simultaneously sell it off in the futures market. Thus, they have created a loan of jet fuel, making sure they have spare fuel available when they need it without outright having to own it.

In order to have a loan, one needs a speculator willing to buy the credit risk. More speculators usually leads to more liquidity and more accurate deals on loans. There's nothing wrong with this at all.

See The Economic Function of Futures Markets by Williams (1986) if you are curious.


Replies

potato373284204/24/2025

Man, it's hilarious how you managed to go full circle around the point while missing it.

If the airline wants to ensure future supply at a given prices they can simply buy futures settled in actual product.

Hedging against future volatility by agreeing on a deal "now" is the entire point. Sure, sometimes you lose when there's a price drop but the other guy won. At the end of the day everyone benefits from smoothing out the volatility.

Buying and selling cash settled futures is just how small time buyers and sellers access the market since they can't take delivery of entire train loads of goods but still need to hedge.

Finance professionals trading them around to wring out an extra percent here and there it beside the point.

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watwut04/24/2025

There is no loan necessary in the plane example. Future is an agreement that you will buy/sell a thing for set price in a set date. No one needs to borrow anything for it to work. To manage the repository, the plane company will have contract to by x barrels at 1 of March for some price. That is it, that is what future is - contractual obligation to with a set date.

Also, while origin stories are nice, most future trades are pure speculations on price. There is no reason to pretend these original stories are how securities are actually used.

Your story may make a bit more sense with options where one party can choose to exercises their right to sell or buy. Then you can use it to manage actual amounts of commodity. But futures do not carry any such option with it. It is strict agreement with no choices. The plane company can use futures to guarantee certain fuel price in the future, so that some short term market swing wont make fuel too expensive for them.

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colechristensen04/24/2025

>Commodity futures are not for the supply of commodities.

This is a silly statement. Commodity producers absolutely do use futures markets to sell their product.

>More speculators usually leads to more liquidity and more accurate deals on loans.

More speculators also leads to more speculation which can lead to anywhere up to a complete disconnect of the price from anything to do with supply or demand.

Case in point: onion futures are illegal in the US https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onion_Futures_Act

keepamovin04/24/2025

It would be good if you could do this with cloud capacity.

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