alt Hacker NewsI was super excited about Precious Plastic when I discovered them 8 years ago. But it didn't take long to realize that they didn't have a clue.
The machines are all FAR too small and fancy/expensive to really make much sense. I've seen some more practical offshoots from PP that design larger machines with recycled materials etc, and consequently they have sustainable businesses around the world.
So, most of all, as is clear from the post, they never really even tried - in over a decade - to make it a viable, self-sustaining enterprise, of any sort.
Also, what's conspicuously missing from the post is their Portugal-based Precious Plastic Camp boondoggle, which always struck me as a hipster commune more than anything.
They also suddenly deleted the original forums, which contained lots of fantastic info.
So, I don't have much faith that throwing more good money after bad would help at all. I'm grateful for the inspiration and excitement that they brought into the world, but it's time for them to be recycled.
And, yet, I expect they'll con someone into helping revive them for version 5, 6 and beyond. That's the way of the non-profit world.
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I hate to say it but i sort of agree.
I’ve also followed PP from the initial grant in Paris but a lot of these problems seem to be self-inflicted. Ones that most stood out were having no insurance, unrealistic open source expectations and giving $100k away rather than furthering the cause.
I’m sure theres minutiae and context i’m missing but that post doesn’t scream competence.
I’m worried any donation would be fluttered away.
The line about being at peace with the project dying seems bizarre. Perhaps time for a little organisational shakeup
As I see it, the fundamental issue is that they're trying to create some kind of hand-made artisanal solution to a problem that is already being addressed on a vast scale by industry. My plastic waste is collected at the kerbside and has been for over a decade. It's baled up and sent off to a facility with huge automated sorting machines. Why would I take my plastic waste to a workshop when the local government already collect it from my doorstep?
Precious Plastic have designed various DIY plastic processing machines for what is essentially hobby use. That's fine, whatever, but for about the same cost I can just buy a commercially-made machine. A manual injection molding machine or a benchtop filament extruder is just a thing you can buy on AliExpress. If you wanted to set up a half-serious plastics business, you could buy an old Boy or Arburg injection molding machine on eBay for close to scrap value. If you want to feed that machine on recycled plastic, reprocessed pellets and regrind are a cheap commodity product.
The problems that remain in plastic recycling are mainly really complex engineering and material science problems, because re-melting inevitably degrades the quality of polymers. Those issues are being slowly chipped away at by serious researchers in academia and industry.
I don't doubt their sincerity, but feel-good aspirations rarely solve much of anything.
"Con" is a strong word, and I'm not sure appropriate.
If someone was taking a $500k salary from donated funds, I'd feel it's a con. I see nothing to that effect.
People without a clue sometimes pick up a clue after some time. Donors donate for a variety of reasons. There are angel investors who donate simply because they want to push a concept along, or want to help nice people.
If someone wealthy decides to support them instead of e.g. buying a supercar or a $10M painting, I think it's all good.
Live and let live.
What sets PP apart from companies making similar machines is their commitment to open source hardware. They make some machines themselves and sell them but their main focus has always been the open source blueprints that (in theory) any one can use to make these machines at home
Lots of cross over with Open Source Ecology's Global Village Construction kit[0] where they attempted to create open source versions of 50 technologies they considered critical for civilization. They made a brick press and a tractor but I think progress slowed after that
That's a bit of a cynical take in my opinion. For a community focused initiative, I'd say they deserve a bit more slack in terms of expectations of professionality, scale and sustainability. They now leave it up to the community to decide to pursue that or abandon altogether. Fair thing to do I'd say.
Also: the original forums aren't suddenly deleted: https://davehakkens.nl/community/forums/index.html He explains the process of migrating into 'One Army': https://davehakkens.nl/index.html
your comment is highly aggressive.
"The machines are all FAR too small" They've given you the design, you can easily scale it larger.
"expensive" then move on.
"they never really even tried" they tried more than you. They built it, and release the plans. Mission accomplished. If you even bothered reading their post where they say once the project is complete, they walk away for a while.
"hipster commune" and what is wrong with that?
"deleted the original forums" perhaps there was a reason?
"it's time for them to be recycled" it's time for you to be recycled
"they'll con" thems are fighting words and you should expect a lawsuit
"That's the way of the non-profit world" I doubt you've even given but I'm sure you've taken. take your money to your grave
I think it is a shame that such a negative comment is at the top.
In fact, I am ashamed by association. Their burn rate is low (~$30,000/year now, though likely higher before) and the value they generate for everyone else has clearly been very high, even just in intangibles. They sound like a public good, and you hang them out to dry for not being... a profitable corporation? Is there an alternate universe where you toss libraries under the bus as well, when they fail to pay their way like bookstores? (I'm curious if anyone has feelings, why or why not this is a reasonable comparison for me to make.)
You (and those voting/speaking to your worldview) are likely materially collapsing something from existing through creating a narrative here. Which is meaningful because this community is likely one that could step up -- with a deep understanding of open source, and wealth through tech associations and profits.
Is your take worth that? Sink or swim, creators and gift-givers? Is PP universally bad enough that you wish for that to be your contribution here?