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armchairhackeryesterday at 10:19 PM8 repliesview on HN

> The solution here shouldn't be technical; it should be legal.

I disagree. Solutions should be technical whenever possible, because in practice, laws tend to be abused and/or not enforced. Laws also need resources and cooperation to be enforced, and some laws are hard to enforce without creating backdoors or compromising other rights.

"ISPs will be prohibited from spying on their customers" doesn't mean ISPs won't spy on their customers.


Replies

transputeyesterday at 11:52 PM

We need more funding for open-source WiFi Sensing counter-measures, e.g. EU research, https://ans.unibs.it/projects/csi-murder/

> this paper addressed passive attacks, where the attacker controls only a receiver, but exploits the normal Wi-Fi traffic. In this case, the only useful traffic for the attacker comes from transmitters that are perfectly fixed and whose position is well known and stable, so that the NN can be trained in advance, thus the obfuscator needs to be installed only in APs or similar ‘infrastructure’ devices. Active attacks, where the attacker controls both the transmitter and the receiver are another very interesting research area, where, however, privacy protection cannot be based on randomization at the transmitter.

https://github.com/ansresearch/csi-murder/

> The experimental results obtained in our laboratory show that the considered localization method (first proposed in an MSc thesis) works smoothly regardless of the environment, and that adding random information to the CSI mess up the localization, thus providing the community with a system that preserve location privacy and communication performance at the same time.

heavyset_gotoday at 1:42 AM

There is no technical solution for this unless you want to invest billions/trillions in building new computing and networking platforms created with privacy in mind.

ISPs will always have the ability to at least deduce whether a connection was used, the MAC address, and it there is WiFi, unfortunately whether people are physically present.

If we look at the roadmap for WiFi/phones/etc, they will soon gain the ability to map out your home, including objects, using consumer radios.

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mbreesetoday at 3:18 AM

You can’t solve social problems with technical solutions. Technical solutions won’t work without some kind of legal backing to force it.

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dcowtoday at 2:08 AM

And how do you technically stop an ISP from using the radio in their hardware to detect small changes in phase angle of signals in your home?

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citizenpaultoday at 5:24 AM

It makes it much more difficult to be profitable if its illegal. This deters the majority of opportunists leaving only the dedicated criminals. And just like thief's people might understand why they steal no one sheds a tear when they go to prison.

sleepybretttoday at 3:48 PM

When we find them spying on customers they will take it all the way to the supreme court where the definition of spying will be put the wringer and flushed of all actual meaning. Then the law will be struck because it violates the corporation's 1st amendment protections concerning 'free speech'. See also Citizen's United.

lovichtoday at 1:32 AM

Technical and legal solutions are for different classes of problems.

Encryption is a technical solution trying to solve the problem of people being able to steal your data/money without your knowledge.

The law/police are the solution to the 5 dollar wrench problem, where you are very aware of the attack but unable to physically stop it

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taneqtoday at 1:21 AM

It might make it a bit harder to use the information obtained through spying, though. Both is good.