alt Hacker NewsThe Framework Desktop is a beast
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>The AMD 395+ uses unified memory, like Apple, so nearly all of it is addressable to be used by the GPU.
This is why they went with the “laptop” cpu. While it’s slightly slower than dedicated memory, it allows you to run the big models, at decent token speeds.
I was baffled by the comparison to the M4 Max. Does this mean that recent AMD chips will be performing at the same level, and what does that mean for on-device LLMs? .. or am I misunderstanding this whole ordeal?
I’ve been agonizing over getting the Framework Desktop for weeks as a dev machine/local LLM box/home server. It checks a lot of boxes but the only reason to look at the Framework Desktop over something like a Minisforum MS-A2 is for the LLM and that seems super janky right now. So I guess I’ll wait a beat and see where we are later in the year.
I like Framework and own one of their laptops. But the desktop seems more a triumph of gimmicky marketing than a desktop that's meaningfully different. And, it seems significantly overpriced.
I cancelled my Framework Desktop order and ordered a HP Z2 Mini G1a instead, the goal being to replace my Mac Studio as I've had it with Apple's arrogance and lousy software quality. The HP is much smaller, has ECC RAM and 10G Ethernet. Significantly more expensive, however.
How does that Framework Desktop compare with the "GMKtec AI Mini Ryzen Al Max+ 395 128GB" mini PC?
I suspect this one is very similar hardware and a slightly better deal if you give up the cool factor of Framework. Although I don't really know.
Anyone compared them head-to-head?
RDNA 3.5, which means you don't get Matrix Cores. Those are reserved for RDNA 4, which comes to laptop chips later this year. Desktop RDNA 4 only shipped in 2025.
For comparison, Nvidia brought Tensor Cores to consumer cards in 2022 with the 4000 series and Apple had simdgroup_matrix since 2020!
We are moving towards a world where this hardware is ubiquitous. It's uncertain what that means for non-ML workloads.
How is AMD GPU compatibility with leading generative AI workflows? I'm under the impression everything is CUDA.
> There's at least a little flexibility with the graphics card if you move the board into a different case—there's a single PCIe x4 slot on the board that you could put an external GPU into, though many PCIe x16 graphics cards will be bandwidth starved.
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/08/review-framework-des...
Amazing thing is this is a laptop-grade chip. Think AMD should make a full-on desktop-grade chip and possibly have two of them on one board.
That’d really drive compute.
What are more budget friendly options for similar workloads (running web app test suite in parallel)?
My test suite currently runs in ~6 seconds on 9700K. Would be nice to speed it up, but maybe not for $2000 :-) Last I checked 13700K or 13900K looked like the price/performance sweet spot, but perhaps there are better options?
I was in the market for a Linux desktop machine and considered the Framework Desktop. I respect their mission, but ended up purchasing a Geekom mini PC instead.
Given repair isn't practical with soldered DRAM and such, I prioritized small form factor, price, and quick delivery.
The Framework Desktop was a much larger form factor, 3x the price, and delivery wasn't for months.
That said, I still hope the company is successful so they have more competitive offerings in the future.
Is there a real alternative, where is not not needed Windows in any way, to the Remote Device Management baked into firmware as Apple does with its hardware ? This is biggest missing to bring Linux to enterprises.
I could do with someone explaining to me (sorry not very advanced knowledge in this area), how did Framework manage this performance at a lower price point? And why can't average Joe at PCPartPicker do something like this?
You need to use Orbstack as the engine on Mac, otherwise it's not a fair fight. It's at least 2x as fast as Docker
Physical Size:
Framework: 4.5L (~5.5x larger than Mac Mini)
Mac Mini: 0.8L
Okay so why is the ram non upgradable again? Because this was the main reason I was holding to PC architecture (I'm considering non upgradable ram as a method of upselling for a ridiculous price of higher amounts)
> The Framework Desktop with 64GB RAM + 2TB NVMe is $1,876
And it's ~$1000 to build a PC with a similar CPU, somewhat larger form factor, and fans. Unless the AI processor is actually useful for AI, and you need that, this is silly.
Framework desktop dimensions are 20.6 x 9.7 x 22.6 LWH. My IM01 case is 37.2 x 18.5 x 28.7. It won't be going in my bag, but it fits nicely on a desktop.
Pre-builts are so expensive these days...
for $2k that is a lot of computer
> But so what? Docker is an integral part of the workflow for tons of developers. We use it to be able to run different versions of MySQL, Redis, and ElasticSearch for different applications on the same machine at the same time. You can't really do that without Docker.
Nix + Process Compose[0] make a great combo, and runs completely native.
I loved my Framework. and yet, Linux is free if your time is free
Wonder how this compares to a Thelio's performance.
I looked at the Framework Desktop a few week ago; mainly to get something that has nicer gaming performance than my laptop's iGPU. I'm not a big gamer really, but as of late I've been wanting to play some things, like The Witcher 3 (saw thread on Reddit celebrating its 10 year anniversary: "that's the new one I still need to play", so that's about how up to date I am with games – some of these "new" games are already classified as "good old game" on gog.com).
My take-away was/is that the Framework Desktop is a very nice machine, but it is expensive IMHO. You can get better performance at a lower price by building your own machine; in this article the 9950X scores lower than the Max 395, and I'm not entirely sure that's accurate – that wasn't my take-away at all (don't have links at the ready). This is also what you'd expect when comparing a 55W laptop chip vs. a 170W desktop chip.
That said, Linux compatibility is a bit of a pain, for example some MediaTek WiFi/Bluetooth chips that ASUS boards use don't have a Linux driver. In general figuring out what components to get is a bit time-consuming. In one of the videos Nirav mentioned that "just get the Framework Desktop" is so much easer, and 100% agree with that.
In the end, I decided to get a USB4/Thunderbold eGPU, which gives me more than enough gaming performance for me and is much cheaper. I already have a laptop that's more than performant enough for my needs, which I got last year mainly due to some idiotic JS build process I had to deal with last year that took forever on my old laptop. On the new machine it's merely "ludicrously slow". Sometimes I think JS people are in cahoots with Intel and/or AMD...
For LLM stuff the considerations might be different. I don't care about that so I didn't look into it.
There's been some theories floating around that the 128gb version could be the best value for on-premise LLM inference. The RAM is split between CPU and GPU at a user-configurable ratio.
So this might be the holy grail of "good enough GPU" and "over 100GB of VRAM" if the rest of the system can keep up.
> In some ways, the Framework Desktop is a curious machine. Desktop PCs are already very user-repairable! So why is Framework even bringing their talents to this domain? In the laptop realm, they're basically alone with that concept, but in the desktop space, it's rather crowded already. Yet it somehow still makes sense.
And even more curious, Framework Desktop is deliberately less repairable than their laptops. They soldered on the RAM. Which makes it a very strange entry for a brand marketing itself as the DIY dream manufacturer. They threw away their user-repairable mantra when they made the Desktop, it's less user repairable than most other desktops you could go out and buy today.
So DHH fell for Sam’s scam. He tried OSS 20b and wasn’t impressed, and apparently dismisses all local models based on that experience with a known awful model.
Oh, to be young again and care about benchmarks, bogomips and stuff like that.
You know it would be a great use for this chip besides AI generative slop? A desktop server with AI-enhanced firewall and a silent home server. This could be effective for zero-days and other weird traffic patterns and maybe even add enterprise-ish email server with spam detection.
There has been several projects started that are experimenting with this including Suricata and pfSense. I wonder how well this chip could handle packet inspection.
> Linux is really efficient. Especially when you're using a window manager like Hyprland, as we do in Omarchy.
Window managers are usually the last issue on modern Linux. Pretty much any native app is okay.
Troubles really start (and start fast) when you open any browser and load any modern website. Had we more native applications (so not cloud stuff, and not javascript stuff with a bundled chromium) we'd all have a much better overall computing experience.
I don't really understand Why one should bother with the pluggable ports in something that's not a laptop. Even in 4.5L, shouldn't we just have "all the ports"?
Also, this reminds me of "SkyReach Tiny":
https://store.nfc-systems.com/products/skyreach-4-tiny
an even smaller case, very versatile. No pluggable gimmicks though.
very impressive...
Max+ 395 specced with: 128GB of non-upgradeable LPDDR5x WD_BLACK SN850X NVMe - M.2 2280 - 8TB Noctua fan 3x + 3x extra USB-A & USB-C ports No OS option.
only $2,776.00!!!
Not really.
A laptop CPU defeats the purpose. Get a 9800X3D for gaming will be waaaay faster or Threadripper for productivity or the 9950X3D chips with 16 cores/32 threads.
Why this laptop crap when you can get a nice PC case.
Then again he thinks the Fractal North was "bulky"? What?
HN admins: can the domain extractor be changed to say "world.hey.com/dhh" here instead of just the domain name? From what I see, Hey World is a blogging platform, similar to Medium but markdown and email based. And the username (blog name) is in the second part of the URL.
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huhm the ars review makes it seem like this thing does worse on benchmarks than stuff like the mac but the test suite in DHH's example goes way faster. Bursty perf perhaps?
It fun to see that, in an era where most CEOs are all-in with AI both on a personal level and at their companies, dhh chose to rather take a deep dive into the world of linux and config files and indie computer brands.
Curious what will the long term impact of this be on the longtime viability of Basecamp and its sister/daughter brands.
> The Framework Desktop with 64GB RAM + 2TB NVMe is $1,876. To get a Mac Studio with similar specs [...] you'll literally spend nearly twice as much [...] The Framework Desktop is simply a great deal.
Wow, someone managed to beat Apple on price??
I don't know that it logically follows that anything is a great deal when it undercuts Apple. Half sounds about right -- I thought Apple was a bit more competitive these days than ×2 actually, but apparently not, also considering that Framework comes with a (totally fair) niche-vendor premium