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IshKebablast Sunday at 5:28 PM6 repliesview on HN

Maybe if you've never tried formatting a traditional multiline string (e.g. in Python, C++ or Rust) before.

If it isn't obvious, the problem is that you can't indent them properly because the indentation becomes part of the string itself.

Some languages have magical "removed the indent" modes for strings (e.g. YAML) but they generally suck and just add confusion. This syntax is quite clear (at least with respect to indentation; not sure about the trailing newline - where does the string end exactly?).


Replies

qzzilast Monday at 1:38 AM

C and Python automatically concatenate string literals, and Rust has the concat! macro. There's no problem just writing it in a way that works correctly with any indentation. No need for weird-strings.

  " one\n"
  "  two\n"
  "   three\n"
show 1 reply
konartlast Sunday at 6:47 PM

I may be missing something but come Go has a simple:

    `A
       simple
          formatted
             string
    `

?
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norirlast Sunday at 8:01 PM

Significant whitespace is not difficult to add to a language and, for me, is vastly superior than what zig does both for strings and the unnecessary semicolon that zig imposes by _not_ using significant whitespace.

I would so much rather read and write:

    let x = """
      a
      multiline string
      example
    """
than

    let x =
      //a
      //multiline string
      //example
    ;
In this particular example, zig doesn't look that bad, but for longer strings, I find adding the // prefix onerous and makes moving strings around different contexts needlessly painful. Yes, I can automatically add them with vim commands, but I would just rather not have them at all. The trailing """ is also unnecessary in this case, but it is nice to have clear bookends. Zig by contrast lacks an opening bracket but requires a closing bracket, but the bracket it uses `;` is ambiguous in the language. If all I can see is the last line, I cannot tell that a string precedes it, whereas in my example, you can.

Here is a simple way to implement the former case: require tabs for indentation. Parse with recursive descent where the signature is

    (source: string, index: number, indent: number, env: comp_env) => ast
Multiline string parsing becomes a matter of bumping the indent parameter. Whenever the parser encounters a newline character, it checks the indentation and either skips it, or if is less than the current indentation requires a closing """ on the next line at a reduced indentation of one line.

This can be implemented in under 200 lines of pure lua with no standard library functions except string.byte and string.sub.

It is common to hear complaints about languages that have syntactically significant whitespace. I think a lot of the complaints are fair when the language does not have strict formatting rules: python and scala come to mind as examples that do badly with this. With scala, practically everyone ends up using scalafmt which slows down their build considerably because the language is way too permissive in what it allows. Yaml is another great example of significant whitespace done poorly because it is too permissive. When done strictly, I find that a language with significant whitespace will always be more compact and thus, in my opinion, more readable than one that does not use it.

I would never use zig directly because I do not like its syntax even if many people do. If I was mandated to use it, I would spend an afternoon writing a transpiler that would probably be 2-10x faster than the zig compiler for the same program so the overhead of avoiding their decisions I disagree with are negligible.

Of course from this perspective, zig offers me no value. There is nothing I can do with zig that I can't do with c so I'd prefer it as a target language. Most code does not need to be optimized, but for the small amount that does, transpiling to c gives me access to almost everything I need in llvm. If there is something I can't get from c out of llvm (which seems highly unlikely), I can transpile to llvm instead.

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z_openlast Sunday at 5:34 PM

Even if we ignore solutions other languages have come up with, it's even worse that they landed on // for the syntax given that it's apparently used the same way for real comments.

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Blackarealast Sunday at 5:44 PM

We can just use a crate for that and don't have to have this horrible comment like style that brings its own category of problems. https://docs.rs/indoc/latest/indoc/

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