alt Hacker News> JavaScript is better than XSLT in every way
Obviously not in every way. XSLT is declarative and builds pretty naturally off of HTML for someone who doesn't know any programming languages. It gives a very low-effort but fairly high power (especially considering its neglect) on-ramp to templated web pages with no build steps or special server software (e.g. PHP, Ruby) that you need to maintain. It's an extremely natural fit if you want to add new custom HTML elements. You link a template just like you link a CSS file to reuse styles. Obvious.
The equivalent Javascript functionality's documentation[0] starts going on about classes and callbacks and shadow DOM, which is by contrast not at all approachable for someone who just wants to make a web page. Obviously Javascript is necessary if you want to make a web application, but those are incredibly rare, and it's expected that you'll need a programmer if you need to make an application.
Part of the death of the open web is that the companies that control the web's direction don't care about empowering individuals to do simple things in a simple way without their involvement. Since there's no simple, open way to make your own page that people can subscribe to (RSS support having been removed from browsers instead of expanded upon for e.g. a live home page), everyone needs to be on e.g. Facebook.
It's the same with how they make it a pain to just copy your music onto your phone or backup your photos off of it, but instead you can pay them monthly for streaming and cloud storage.
[0] https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Web_compone...
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XSL is a Turing-complete functional programming language, not a declarative language. When you xsl:apply-template, you're calling a function.
Functional programming languages can often feel declarative. When XSL is doing trivial, functional transformations, when you keep your hands off of xsl:for-each, XSL feels declarative, and doesn't feel that bad.
The problem is: no clean API is perfectly shaped for UI, so you always wind up having to do arbitrary, non-trivial transformations with tricky uses of for-each to make the output HTML satisfy user requirements.
XSL's "escape hatch" is to allow arbitrary Turing-complete transformations, with <xsl:variable>, <xsl:for-each>, and <xsl:if>. This makes easy transformations easy and hard transformations possible.
XSL's escape hatch is always needed, but it's absolutely terrible, especially compared to JS, especially compared to modern frameworks. This is why JS remained popular, but XSL dwindled.
> It gives a low-effort but fairly high power (especially considering its neglect) on-ramp to templated web pages with no build steps or special server software (e.g. PHP, Ruby) that you need to maintain. It's an extremely natural fit if you want to add new custom HTML elements.
JavaScript is a much better low-effort high-power on-ramp to templated web pages with no build steps or server software. JavaScript is the natural fit for adding custom HTML elements (web components).
Seriously, XSLT is worse than JavaScript in every way, even at the stuff that XSLT is best at. Performance/bloat? Worse. Security? MUCH worse. Learnability / language design? Unimaginably worse.
EDIT: You edited your post, but the Custom Element API is for interactive client-side components. If you just want to transform some HTML on the page into other HTML as the page loads, you can use querySelectorAll, the jQuery way.
> not at all approachable for someone who just wants to make a web page
If someone wants to make a web page they need to learn HTML and CSS.
Why would adding a fragile and little-used technology like XSLT help?
I'm a web components guy myself, but that's not the equivalent JavaScript functionality at all, as XSLT doesn't event have components.
XSLT is a functional transform language. The equivalent JavaScript would be something like registry of pure functions of Node -> Node and associated selectors and a TreeWalker that walks the XML document, invokes matching functions, and emits the result into a new document.
Or you could consume the XML as data into a set of React functions.
Nobody learned web programming by putting XSLT on top of XML.
This is a fantasy world that does not exist.
People used PHP, or a tool which created HTML (DreamWeaver), or a website, or maybe a LLM today.
> XSLT is declarative and builds pretty naturally off of HTML for someone who doesn't know any programming languages.
Have you ever met a single non-programmer who successfully picked up XSLT of their own volition and used it productively?
I'd be willing to bet good money that the Venn diagram of users that fit the intersection of "authoring content for the web", "care about separating content from HTML", "comfortable with HTML", "not comfortable with JavaScript", and "able to ramp up on XSLT" is pretty small.
At some point, we have to just decide "sorry, this use case is too marginal for every browser to maintain this complexity forever".