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segfaultexyesterday at 12:53 PM9 repliesview on HN

Yeah, I don't want to be uncharitable, but I've noticed that a lot of stem fields make heavy use of esoteric language and syntax, and I suspect they do so as a means of gatekeeping.

I understand that some degree of formalism is required to enable the sharing of knowledge amongst people across a variety of languages, but sometimes I'll read a white paper and think "wow, this could be written a LOT more simply".

Statistics is a major culprit of this.


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locknitpickeryesterday at 1:52 PM

> Yeah, I don't want to be uncharitable, but I've noticed that a lot of stem fields make heavy use of esoteric language and syntax, and I suspect they do so as a means of gatekeeping.

I think you're confusing "I don't understand this" with "the man is keeping me down".

All fields develop specialized language and syntax because a) they handle specialized topics and words help communicate these specialized concepts in a concise and clear way, b) syntax is problem-specific for the same reason.

See for example tensor notation, or how some cultures have many specialized terms to refer to things like snow while communicating nuances.

> "wow, this could be written a LOT more simply"

That's fine. A big part of research is to digest findings. I mean, we still see things like novel proofs for the Pythagoras theorem. If you can express things clearer, why aren't you?

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gjulianmyesterday at 1:36 PM

> I suspect they do so as a means of gatekeeping

I'm surprised at how could you get at this conclusion. Formalisms, esoteric language and syntax are hard for everyone. Why would people invest in them if their only usefulness was gatekeeping? Specially when it's the same people who will publish their articles in the open for everyone to read.

A more reasonable interpretation is that those fields use those things you don't like because they're actually useful to them and to their main audience, and that if you want to actually understand those concepts they talk about, that syntax will end up being useful to you too. And that a lack of syntax would not make things easier to understand, just less precise.

aleph_minus_oneyesterday at 1:21 PM

> I understand that some degree of formalism is required to enable the sharing of knowledge amongst people across a variety of languages, but sometimes I'll read a white paper and think "wow, this could be written a LOT more simply".

OK, challenge accepted: find a way to write one of the following papers much more simply:

Fabian Hebestreit, Peter Scholze; A note on higher almost ring theory

https://arxiv.org/abs/2409.01940

Peter Scholze; Berkovich Motives

https://arxiv.org/abs/2412.03382

---

What I want to tell you with these examples (these are, of course, papers which are far above my mathematical level) is: often what you read in math papers is insanely complicated; simplifying even one of such papers is often a huge academic achievement.

beng-nlyesterday at 1:54 PM

My opinion on this is that in mathematics the material can be presented in a very dry and formal way, often in service of rigor, which is not welcoming at all, and is in fact unnecessarily unwelcoming.

But I don’t believe it to be used as gatekeeping at all. At worst, hazing (“it was difficult for me as newcomer so it should be difficult to newcomers after me”) or intellectual status (“look at this textbook I wrote that takes great intellectual effort to penetrate”). Neither of which should be lauded in modern times.

I’m not much of a mathematician, but I’ve read some new and old textbooks, and I get the impression there is a trend towards presenting the material in a more welcoming way, not necessarily to the detriment of rigor.

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bncndn0956yesterday at 1:08 PM

3blue1brown proves your point.

The saying, "What one fool can do, another can," is a motto from Silvanus P. Thompson's book Calculus Made Easy. It suggests that a task someone without great intelligence can accomplish must be relatively simple, implying that anyone can learn to do it if they put in the effort. The phrase is often used to encourage someone, demystify a complex subject, and downplay the difficulty of a task.

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ncfj76yesterday at 2:56 PM

I say the same thing about the universe. There is some gate keeping going on there. My 3 inch chimp brain at the age of 3 itself was quite capable of imagining a universe. No quantum field equations required. Then by 6 I was doing it in minecraft. And by 10 I was doing it with a piano. But then they started wasting my time telling me to read Kant.

MangoToupeyesterday at 1:43 PM

> I suspect they do so as a means of gatekeeping.

What, as opposed to using ambiguous language and getting absolutely nothing done?

fragmedeyesterday at 2:26 PM

In this modern era of easily accessible knowledge, how gate keepy is it though? It's inscrutable at first glance, but ChatGPT is more than happy to explain what the hell ℵ₀, ℵ₁, ♯, ♭, or Σ mean, and you can ask it to read the arxiv pdf and have it explain it to you.

bell-cotyesterday at 12:58 PM

Gatekeeping, or self-promotion? You don't get investors/patents/promotions/tenure by making your knowledge or results sound simple and understandable.

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