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fasbinerlast Saturday at 11:31 PM1 replyview on HN

This may be too far of an obscure historical reference, but is there really nothing specific to German history and nothing within german civic education and contemporary national identity formation that might make this potentially more controversial?

Hint:some of these events involved spheres of influence and control over resources in eastern europe!


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aleph_minus_onelast Saturday at 11:59 PM

I think the much bigger issue is that the older generation (those who, say, turned 18 in the 70s) told the younger generation lots of really nasty stories about the cruel trials people had to endure who wanted to do alternative national service (Zivildienst) instead of military service. These formed the value system of many people in at least two generations ("Soldaten sind Mörder" [soldiers are murders]).

EDIT: If you understand German, here is a song from 1972 about these brutal cross-examinations:

> Franz Josef Degenhardt - Befragung eines Kriegsdienstverweigerers

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDTtMTcj8X0

Additionally, the participation of Germany in the first aggressive wars in Yugoslavia in 1999 and then in Afghanistan from 2001 on (before citizens were told that the Bundeswehr is only a defense army, and would never participate in an aggressive war) lead to a radicalization of another generation against the Bundeswehr - and yes, this generation eagerly listened to the above-mentioned horror stories of the older generations. It is even rumored that this next generation's radicalization against the Bundeswehr indirectly lead to the suspension of the compulsory military service in Germany in 2011.

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