alt Hacker NewsValve: HDMI Forum Continues to Block HDMI 2.1 for Linux
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Summarizing this thread:
- I paid for a device with a properly licensed hdmi port. It runs linux. So patent exhaustion applies, at least in the US. I can say ignore the patents to make my property work.
- I have no relationship to the HDMI people. (Never entered into a contract with them.)
- The links to the spec are here. (Trade secrets/nda no longer apply. This is the problem with using trade secrets to protect your stuff.)
- If I point a coding assistant (assume open weights/source) at this thread, and a copy of linux main, it can probably just fix the damn driver.
- I could probably publish my patch with a big fat “only for use with licensed hdmi hardware, not for resale” disclaimer on it.
At that point, what law would I have broken?
We really need to just force all standards organizations to release their standards for free. No making you pay $300 or whatever for a standard. (The PCI SIG makes you pay like $5000 for access to the PCIe standard...)
It's about time somebody does some reverse engineering and just uploads the needed stuff online to make HDMI 2.1 work in Linux. It's getting absurd at this point. TV's need to start including Displayport, HDMI is a giant pain in the ass for gamers.
Here’s their social media presence if anyone is feeling like they’d like to drop them a message:
https://www.facebook.com/HDMIForum/
https://twitter.com/HDMIForum/
The funny thing of course is that the Steam Machine has DisplayPort, and you can easily get a DisplayPort to HDMI 2.1 dongle for $20 retail. But they are targeting this being a console, and those are hooked to TVs over HDMI so it seems lame to not have a built-in HDMI port.
This is mostly an academic exercise though. HDMI 2.0 does 4K @ 60hz, and Valve have 4K @ 120hz (with 4:2:0 chroma subsampling) working over it too. Given the CPU/GPU in this machine, it won't be able to push higher than those limits anyway.
Am I understanding correctly that the underlying issue is asking exorbitant prices to see the HDMI Forum’s specs? Feels like you shouldn’t be able to define an industry spec if you want to get paid for it, but maybe that would suppress smaller-scale, niche development.
I have had nothing but issues with HDMI. Doing development and trying to integrate HDMI into a hardware design. Everything should just be Display Port. No question. It is a racket.
I'm tired, boss.
The winning move is not to play. The HDMI Forum (and other orgs that behave similarly) prey on our desire for the most/best/(insert superlative here). I get that there's no free lunch. It is also true you see a lot of initiatives and projects do a lot of collective good while demanding much less.
I’ve been looking for a DisplayPort to HDMI cable to get around this on our household couch gaming computer. I have been unable to find one sketchy or otherwise that can handle high refresh rate and 4:4:4 color.
Kill HDMI, a bad standard from entertainment industry (Sony).
Use DisplayPort (VESA), integrated into USB Type-C (USB-IF). Anyway better, a flawless with HiDPI and FreeSync.
This website seems to have “pay for privacy” because you have to pay to not have trackers.
Ugh. It's sad we're still saddled with HDMI at all, when DisplayPort has always been better.
Looks like Valve also needs to start making SteamTV, just a TV without any "smart" spyware/adware OS. Until then.. this blackfriday I ordered a TV that by miracle even has a DisplayPort input (Hisense 65U8Q). Unfortunately still "smart" TV but at least it does not have US-based OS but European made VIDAA which hopefully provides much less spyware than the US-alternatives, if it properly respects the EU GDPR laws. Hopefully Hisense starts/inspires a bigger movement towards DisplayPort and this HDMI mafia dies as soon as possible.
Looking at recent AV1 submits on HN. It feels it’s all politics waiting for enough interests to burst.
It might take some years. But it’s not far fetch especially if big players would get into it. Let’s say Netflix interest in games gets them to buy company such as Valve and it aligns with their interests of getting some standard.
They can get TV and displays manufactures support it and end up changing the market.
But for such to happen there needs to be enough interests and incentives.
HDMI forum is a frontend for the cartel that profits from HDMI patents. Everyone should use USB 4 / DisplayPort instead and HDMI should go into the dustbin of history, but TV industry is slowing things down due this cartel.
Adapting DP to HDMI using the Synaptics VMM7100 chip is apparently the best (most feature complete) workaround for now. It's the same one that Intel uses in their Arc GPUs.
Someone should just leak the driver anonymously for everyone to use, and Valve can always claim HDMI compatibility without actually saying it's "HDMI compliant."
Need VDMI that is suspiciously similar and compatible with HDMI standard.
For PCs I go for DisplayPort or USB-C on devices nowadays. The DisplayPort connector has the advantage of being good with a clipping mechanism.
Couldn’t AMD just release that as firmware/binary blob and call that from the open source driver to circumvent the issue?
Legally speaking, what is stopping someone from just reverse-engineering the specification and publishing it online somewhere?
Article without GDPR-noncompliant consent wall: https://archive.is/8ED2m
I always choose DP. I didn't even know there was this issue with HDMI.
This is fundamentally about DRM, isn't it? There is a working open source implementation already, but the HDMI cartel won't allow an open source implementation to have the encryption keys required to interface with the DRM in existing devices?
Is the a USB-C/Thunderbolt to HDMI 2.1 dongle? Send Displayport and audio over USB-C and then let that hardware handle the HDMI handshaking.
I just use a DisplayPort to hdmi cable. Works well on my 4k@120 TV
Can we just give up on HDMI and start putting DisplayPort on TVs already?
What is preventing the emergence of an open source project providing the HDMI 2.1 bytecode ready to be downloaded into a FPGA, giving any Linux user the possibility to very easily DIY an adapter? Or even sell and ship the hardware without any loaded bytecode, and then users load it beforehand?
Great news. HDMI can just go and die. If the HdMI Forum really thinks it’s bigger than Linux, it’s wrong. While category of devices in this space are just Linux only. Eventually, they’ll add a DP port, eventually (10 years later)
more like HDM-Bye!
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Standard link to download: https://dokumen.pub/download/hdmi-specification-21-high-defi...
Alternative: https://annas-archive.org/md5/4dd395c749519a36cb755e6ebbe488...
Alternative (incomplete, only couple first page): https://device.report/m/91235972e8cbf6d6ce84f7cf84ca0ac12623...
Other HDMI stuff: https://pdfhost.io/v/YidEvBDkS_EP92A7E_EP91A7E_DS_V04
Older available here: https://glenwing.github.io/docs/