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tialaramexlast Thursday at 12:26 PM1 replyview on HN

Your "I bet they're God" stance is even more naive. They're not God, they've got a finite budget both in financial terms and in terms of what will be tolerated politically.

Of course spooks expend resources to spy on people, but that's an expenditure from their finite budget. If it costs $1 to snoop every HTTP request a US citizen makes in a year, that's inconsequential so an NSA project to trawl every such request gets green lit because why not. If it costs $1000 now there's pressure to cut that, because it'll be hundreds of billions of dollars to snoop every US citizen.

That's why it matters that these logs are tamper-evident. One of the easiest ways to cheaply snoop would be to be able to impersonate any server at your whim, and we see that actually nope, that would be very expensive, so that's not a thing they seem to do.


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dns_sneklast Thursday at 6:44 PM

That's never been my stance because there's a difference between mass surveillance and targeted surveillance. If you understood that then you wouldn't be getting lost and making silly references to "God".

I don't believe that the NSA is omniscient. I believe they have 95% of data on 95% of the population through mass surveillance, and 99.9% of data on 99.9% of people of interest through targeted surveillance.

You think abusing public CAs for mass surveillance is a genius idea, and that its lack of real-world abuse proves that mass surveillance just doesn't happen - full stop.

Unfortunately you fail to consider that if they tried to do this just once, they would be detected immediately, offending CAs would be quickly removed from every OS and browser on the planet, the trust in our digital infrastructure would be eroded, impacting the economy, and it would likely all be in exchange for nothing.

On the other hand if you're trying to target someone then what's the point of using an attack that immediately tips off your target, that requires them to be on a network path that you control, and that's trivially defeated if they simply use a VPN or any sort of application-layer encryption, like Signal? There is none.

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