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zipy124last Thursday at 4:07 PM12 repliesview on HN

The main problem is the incentives are off. Publishers are now rewarded for publishing more papers, as opposed to having more readers. When it was more readers, you were rewarded for the quality of the publication thus more people wanted to read it. By switching the profit incentive to number of publications, we have chosen quantity over quality.

Needless to say I prefer open access since those outside institutions can then read science, but the incentive model is heavily broken, and I'm not sure it's a good price to pay for the reward.


Replies

rorytbyrnelast Thursday at 8:40 PM

I disagree. We haven't chosen quantity over quality, we have decided that journals should not be the arbiters of quality. I think these new incentives are exactly what we want:

1. Journals want to publish lots of articles, so they are incentivised to provide a better publishing experience to authors (i.e. better tech, post-PDF science, etc) - Good.

2. Journals will stop prioritising quality, which means they will relinquish their "prestige" factor and potentially end the reign of glam-journals - Good.

3. Journals will stop prioritising quality, which means we can move to post-publication peer-review unimpeded - Good.

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kqrlast Thursday at 8:53 PM

> Publishers are now rewarded for publishing more papers, as opposed to having more readers.

That's the first order effect, but you have to look beyond it. If authors have to pony up $1500, they will only do so for journals that have readers. The journals that are able to charge will be those that focus on their readership.

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strangattractorlast Thursday at 5:11 PM

The people that pay are the Institutions (Universities mainly). Not the readers. The publications are sold to them as bundles even if the Institution does not want all the journals.

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beambotyesterday at 2:13 AM

> Publishers are now rewarded for publishing more papers

Publishers have a finite capacity based on the number of credible peer reviewers. In the past, it felt very exploitative as an academic doing peer review for the economic benefit of publishing houses. I'd much rather have "public good" publishers with open access -- at least I feel like the "free" labor is aligned with the desired outcome.

rovr138last Thursday at 4:37 PM

Is it a fee for publication or a fee for reviewing?

Found,

> Once your paper has been accepted, we will confirm your eligibility automatically through the eRights system, and you’ll get to choose your Creative Commons license (CC BY or CC BY-NC-ND).

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__MatrixMan__last Thursday at 8:16 PM

It still wouldn't be perfect, but I'd like to see a system that rewarded publishers and authors for coming up with work that was a load bearing citation for other work (by different authors on different publishers, i.e. ones with no ulterior motive for having chosen it as a source).

Like some escrow account that the universities pay into and the publisher payouts go to whoever best enables their authors to do the most useful work... as determined by the other authors.

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jojobasyesterday at 1:23 AM

The whole publication model is broken, not just the incentives. It used to be researchers eager to share their new findings with the few hundred people that could understand them, now it's throngs of PhD students grinding their way to degrees and postdocs trying to secure tenure. The journals are flooded with nonsense and actual researchers resort to word of mouth point out valuable papers to each other.

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sheepscreekyesterday at 1:03 PM

Processing != Publishing (at least I hope not).

theptiplast Thursday at 9:01 PM

Disagree. The journals are now acting like a paid certification. If they admit any old slop, who would pay to submit their papers?

The service they are providing is peer review and applying a reputable quality bar to submissions.

Think of it this way, if you have a good paper why would you publish on Arxiv instead of Nature? And then if you are Nature, why would you throw away this edge to become a free-to-publish (non-revenue-accruing) publication?

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nairboonlast Thursday at 4:50 PM

The incentives are alright. Publishers who now start publishing too much low quality slop will lose readers (who has time to read all those low quality publications). Less readers leads to less citations, which will drag dawn their impact factor resulting in less authors willing to pay a high publication fee.

For those fields with an existing market, meaning there is more than one high quality journal, the market will provide the right incentives for those publishers.

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aimanbenbahalast Thursday at 10:00 PM

What about a better deal: Scientific knowledge shouldn't be a for-profit venture to pursue.

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zwnowyesterday at 7:56 AM

You had the quantity argument as well when it was about accumulation of subscribers. As a bigger variety of content also attracts a bigger variety of people.