alt Hacker News> you’d have to drop support for multiple voltage rails and thus multiple IO standards, which is exactly what you don’t want to lose.
Yes? Yes it is? 9 times out of 10, my entire board is LVCMOS33. I would love to have the option to drop all of the power rail complexity in a simplified series of parts.
Sometimes you need maximum I/O speed. Sometimes you need maximum I/O flexibility. Sometimes you need processing horsepower. And sometimes you need the certainty of hardware timing, which you get on a gate array and don't get any time there's a processor involved. Or, often, what I actually need is just a little bit of weird logic that's asynchronous, but too hard to do with the remnants of 74-series or 4000-series logic that are still available.
> Building bitstreams is IMO not complicated. (I just copy a Makefile from a previous project and go from there.)
It is not complicated for people who have spent a long time learning and who have past designs they can copy from. (I have a few of those myself.) It is nasty to explain to a new person and very nasty to explain well enough to reproduce in the future without me around.
> Loading them is a matter of plugging in a JTAG cable and typing “make program”.
Yes, for you on the bench. Now program them into a product on an assembly line. Of course it is possible. It is still a giant headache, and quite a bit worse than just dealing with an MCU.
> I don’t know what you mean with the “manage SW projects for”?
Two words: Xilinx ISE.
Replies
> and quite a bit worse than just dealing with an MCU.
Unless you're using some kind of USB DFU mode (which is annoying on assembly lines), SWD-based flashing of an MCU is substantially more complicated than the JTAG sequences that some internal-flash FPGAs use for programming..
These chips are just as easy or easier to program than any ARM MCU. Raw SPI NOR flash isn't "easy" to program if you've never done it before, either.
> sometimes … sometimes … sometimes …
And sometimes you need support for multiple IO standards.
I don’t understand what point you’re trying to get across.
But if all you need is LVCMOS33, why do you not use a MAX10 FPGA with built-in voltage regulator? Or a similar FPGA device from GoWin that is positioned as a MAX10 alternative? What is wrong with those?
> JTAG
On our production line, we use JTAG to program the FPGA? We literally used the same “make program” command for development and production. That was for production volumes considerably larger than 100k.
> ISE
ISE was end of life’d when I started using FPGAs professionally. That was in 2012. The only reason it still exists is because some hold-outs are still using Spartan 6.
> often, what I actually need is just a little bit of weird logic that's asynchronous
As a concrete example of this: two weeks ago I wanted a 21-input OR gate. It would have been wonderful if I could spend a little bit of money, buy a programmable thing in a 24-pin package, put it down, figure out some way to get the bitstream in (this is never pleasant in medium-volume manufacturing, so it's not like we're going to solve it now), and get my gate function that is literally one line of HDL. One. Line.
As it was, a 21-input OR gate is so much work in 74-series logic that I abandoned that whole thing and we did the bigger-picture job in a different, worse, way.