alt Hacker News> They let themselves be disarmed, and they will ultimately suffer tyranny as a result.
There's plenty of tyranny in the USA today and guns have done nothing to stop it. There are countless videos on youtube right now of government tyranny in America, how many videos have you seen of tyranny by the State being stopped because someone pulled out a gun or opened fire? I'm not saying that rhetorically, if you've got a bunch of youtube videos of people shooting police or politicians engaged in tyranny which successfully stopped that tyranny from taking place please respond with links. I'd be genuinely interested in seeing them.
> The mere possibility that a thug might not survive an encounter with granny means he will think long and hard
This is demonstrably false. Everywhere in the US there is a possibility that grannies can have a gun, but nowhere, even the places where there is concealed carry and a large number of gun owners, has crime been stopped as a result. Muggings still happen. Beatings still happen. Rapes still happen. Thugs don't "think long and hard" period. Guns don't make a difference. Gang members in particular aren't scared of guns. They have guns too. They've been shot, or been shot at, many times. They've watched their friends be killed by gunfire. None of that stops them.
> The fact that normal people might lose their shit keeps politicians in line.
Where do you live where your politicians are kept in line at all, or by anything except maybe fear of not being reelected? Again, there are countless examples of politicians out of line all over this country. The number of guns/gun owners has zero impact on government corruption. It's everywhere.
> Give up your rights, and evil will follow.
I, like most Americans, don't want to abolish the 2nd amendment, but like with all of our rights, there are reasonable restrictions and limits that can be placed on it which would still allow people to defend their homes and hunt and shoot while still bringing gun deaths closer to what we see in other counties.
>There's plenty of tyranny in the USA today and guns have done nothing to stop it.
Guns stop crime which is a form of tyranny. As for government tyranny, you are not going to be able to fight a heavily armed tyrant without guns. We didn't win independence from the British via debate. Guns are a factor in reigning in deranged politicians. That is why they want to disarm everyone.
>This is demonstrably false. Everywhere in the US there is a possibility that grannies can have a gun, but nowhere, even the places where there is concealed carry and a large number of gun owners, has crime been stopped as a result.
Crime has been reduced by gun ownership.
>Thugs don't "think long and hard" period. Guns don't make a difference. Gang members in particular aren't scared of guns. They have guns too. They've been shot, or been shot at, many times. They've watched their friends be killed by gunfire. None of that stops them.
They do fear guns. They have guns because they are effective for self-defense, even for criminals. Hard-boiled criminals fear guns. Even if you find some that are so calloused and/or stupid that they don't fear guns, the guns will protect you from those criminals anyway. The gun does not care what its target thinks of it.
>Where do you live where your politicians are kept in line at all, or by anything except maybe fear of not being reelected?
Like I said, it is a factor. The people who want to take our guns are heavily guarded by men with guns. Take the hint.
>I, like most Americans, don't want to abolish the 2nd amendment, but like with all of our rights, there are reasonable restrictions and limits that can be placed on it which would still allow people to defend their homes and hunt and shoot while still bringing gun deaths closer to what we see in other counties.
We already have background checks on every legal gun purchase and extra unconstitutional laws restricting many types of firearms. There is a de-facto and illegal national gun registry.
For all the benefits we get from government, it remains the biggest domestic menace to all of us and we must take steps to not allow ourselves to be defenseless against the state. How do you think genocides happen? The second amendment is not for hunting, or for warding off low-level thugs, though it might be useful for those purposes. It is there to give normal people a real chance to reign in evil in government. A standing professional army would not win against a well-armed majority standing up for their own rights. Even if they did win, it would be a Pyrrhic victory.