alt Hacker NewsSome things I occasionally contemplate: (not that I’ve ever tried to work any of these out anywhere near completely)
1. Why isn’t there a variant of &mut that doesn’t allow swapping the value? I feel like it ought to be possible to lend out permission to mutate some object but not to replace it. Pinning the object works, but that’s rather extreme.
2. Would it be safe to lend the reference type above to a pinned object? After all, if a function promises to return with the passed-in parameter intact in its original location and not to swap it with a different value/place, then its address must stay intact.
3. Why is pinning a weird sticky property of a reference? Shouldn’t non-movability of an object be a property of the object’s type? Is it just a historical artifact that it works the way it does or is this behavior actually desirable?
4. Wouldn’t it be cool if there was a reference type that gave no permissions at all but still guaranteed that the referred-to object would continue to exist? It might make more sense to use with RefCell-like objects than plain &. This new reference type could exist concurrently with &mut.
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Common wisdom is that pinning is a property of the place, not the reference or the type.
A type that might require stable pointers, like async{}, might want to be movable prior to use, so you don't want the type to require the value be pinned immediately. Or if you do, you need a construction like pinned-init that offers `&pin out T` - a pinned place that can be written to on initialisation of the type.
For 1, I think it's hard to make a distinction between swapping an object, vs. swapping/mutating all of its fields such that it becomes equivalent to a different object.
For 3, some objects only need to be pinned under certain circumstances, e.g. futures only need to be pinned after they're polled for the first time, but not before. So it's convenient to separate the pinnability property to allow them to be moved freely beforehand.
I don't quite understand the usecase you have in mind for 4.
> Why isn’t there a variant of &mut that doesn’t allow swapping the value?
This is a very insightful observation, and Niko Matsakis (leading influence of Rust's borrow checker) would likely agree with you that this is an instance where Rust's default borrowing rules are probably too permissive, in the sense that being more restrictive by default regarding the "swappability" of &mut could lead to Rust being able to provide more interesting static guarantees. See his blog post here: https://smallcultfollowing.com/babysteps/blog/2024/09/26/ove...
> Why is pinning a weird sticky property of a reference? Shouldn’t non-movability of an object be a property of the object’s type?
See this blog post from withoutboats: https://without.boats/blog/pinned-places/ for arguments as to why pinning is properly modeled as a property of a place rather than a type (particularly the section "Comparison to immovable types"), as well as this post from Niko that ties this point in with the above point regarding swappability: https://smallcultfollowing.com/babysteps/blog/2024/10/14/ove...