alt Hacker NewsMy second project at Google basically killed mocking for me and I've basically never done it since. Two things happened.
The first was that I worked on a rewrite of something (using GWT no less; it was more than a decade ago) and they decided to have a lot of test coverage and test requirements. That's fine but they way it was mandated and implemented, everybody just testing their service and DIed a bunch of mocks in.
The results were entirely predictable. The entire system was incredibly brittle and a service that existed for only 8 weeks behaved like legacy code. You could spend half a day fixing mocks in tests for a 30 minute change just because you switched backend services, changed the order of calls or just ended up calling a given service more times than expected. It was horrible and a complete waste of time.
Even the DI aspect of this was horrible because everything used Guice andd there wer emodules that installed modules that installed modules and modifying those to return mocks in a test environment was a massive effort that typically resulted in having a different environment (and injector) for test code vs production code so what are you actually testing?
The second was that about this time the Java engineers at the company went on a massive boondoggle to decide on whether to use (and mandate) EasyMock vs Mockito. This was additionally a waste of time. Regardless of the relative merits of either, there's really not that much difference. At no point is it worth completely changing your mocking framework in existing code. Who knows how many engineering man-yars were wasted on this.
Mocking encourages bad habits and a false sense of security. The solution is to have dummy versions of services and interfaces that have minimal correct behavior. So you might have a dummy Identity service that does simple lookups on an ID for permissions or metadata. If that's not what you're testing and you just need it to run a test, doing that with a mock is just wrong on so many levels.
I've basically never used mocks since, so much so that I find anyone who is strongly in favor of mocks or has strong opinions on mocking frameworks to be a huge red flag.
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“The solution is to have dummy versions of services and interfaces that have minimal correct behavior”
If you aren’t doing this with mocks then you’re doing mocks wrong.
my time at google likewise led me to the conclusion that fakes were better than mocks in pretty much every case (though I was working in c++ and python, not java).
edit: of course google was an unusual case because you had access to all the source code. I daresay there are cases where only a mock will work because you can't satisfy type signatures with a fake.
Mockito, in every case I had to use it, was a last resort because a third party library didnt lend itself to mocking, or you were bringing legacy code under test and using it long enough to refactor it out.
It should never be the first tool. But when you need it, it’s very useful.
Heavy mocks usage comes from dogmatically following the flawed “most tests should be unit tests” prescription of the “testing pyramid,” as well as a strict adherence to not testing more than one class at a time. This necessitates heavy mocking, which is fragile, terrible to refactor, leads to lots of low-value tests. Sadly, AI these days will generate tons of those unit tests in the hands of those who don’t know better. All in all leading to the same false sense of security and killing development speed.
I'm not sure I understand. "The solution is to have dummy versions of services and interfaces that have minimal correct behavior".
That's mocks in a nutshell. What other way would you use mocks?