alt Hacker NewsSomething nobody's talking about: OpenAI's losses might actually be attractive to certain investors from a tax perspective. Microsoft and other corporate investors can potentially use their share of OpenAI's operating losses to offset their own taxable income through partnership tax treatment. It's basically a tax-advantaged way to fund R&D - you get the loss deductions now while retaining upside optionality later. This is why the "cash burn = value destruction" framing misses the mark. For the right investor base, $10B in annual losses at OpenAI could be worth $2-3B in tax shields (depending on their bracket and how the structure works). That completely changes the return calculation. The real question isn't "can OpenAI justify its valuation" but rather "what's the blended tax rate of its investor base?" If you're sitting on a pile of profitable cloud revenue like Microsoft, suddenly OpenAI's burn rate starts looking like a pretty efficient way to minimize your tax bill while getting a free option on the AI leader. This also explains why big tech is so eager to invest at nosebleed valuations. They're not just betting on AI upside, they're getting immediate tax benefits that de-risk the whole thing.
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>> For the right investor base, $10B in annual losses at OpenAI could be worth $2-3B in tax shields
So just a loss for governments, or in other words, socializing the losses.
Amazon already has not been paying any sort of income tax to the EU. There was a lawsuit in Belgium but Amazon has won that in late-2024 since they had a separate agreement in/with Luxembourg.
Speaking for EU, all big tech already not paying taxes one way or another, either using Dublin/Ireland (Google, Amazon, Microsoft, Meta, ...) and Luxembourg (Amazon & Microsoft as far as I can tell) to avoid such corporate/income taxes. Simply possible because all the earnings go back to the U.S. entity in terms of "IP rights".
this is not accurate. microsoft recognizes openai losses on their income statement, proportionate to their ownership stake. this has created a huge drag on eps, along with a lot more eps volatility than in the past. it's gotten so bad that microsoft now points people to adjusted net income, which is notable as they had always avoided those games. none of this has been welcomed
> Something nobody's talking about
Nobody is talking about this because it's not a thing.
People here will shit on LLMs all day for being confidently incorrect, then upvote aggressively financially illiterate comments like this.
> OpenAI's losses might actually be attractive to certain investors from a tax perspective.
OpenAI is anyways seeking Govt Bailout for "National Security" reasons. Wow, I earlier scoffed at "Privatize Profits, Socialize Losses", but this appears to now be Standard Operating Procedure in the U.S.
https://www.citizen.org/news/openais-request-for-massive-gov...
So the U.S. Taxpayer will effectively pay for it. And not just the U.S. Taxpayer - due to USD reserve currency status, increasing U.S. debt is effectively shared by the world. Make billionaires richer, make the middle class poor. Make the poor destitute. Make the destitute dead. (All USAID cuts)
Can you explain it in another way? What you are saying is that instead of loosing 100% they loose 70% and loosing 70% is somehow good? Or are you saying the risk adjusted returns are then 30% better on the downside than previously thought? Because if you are, I think people here are saying the risk is so high that it is a given they will fail.
> The real question isn't "can OpenAI justify its valuation" but rather "what's the blended tax rate of its investor base?"
Was that an organic "it's not A, it's B" or synthetic?
Whilst that is an option, it wont cover the share price hit from the fallout, which would wipe out more than the debt as when the big domino falls, others will follow as the market panic shifts.
So kinda looking at a bank level run on tech companies if they go broke.
It’s hardly a free option, by your numbers it’d be a 20-30% discount.
Lmao this is ridiculous. If MSFT really wanted the tax benefits they should’ve just wholly acquired OAI long ago to acquire the financial synergy you speak of.
> For the right investor base, $10B in annual losses at OpenAI could be worth $2-3B in tax shields (depending on their bracket and how the structure works). That completely changes the return calculation
I know nothing about finances at this level, so asking like a complete newbie: doesn't that just mean that instead of risking $10B they're risking $7-8B? It is a cheaper bet for sure, but doesn't look to me like a game changer when the range of the bet's outcome goes from 0 to 1000% or more.