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yodontoday at 3:00 PM3 repliesview on HN

>Economics rules everything

Physics rules everything, once you start trying to run at scale.

The density of carbon per unit volume in solid materials of interest doesn't vary that much, whether you sink it in trees or in exotic materials like diamonds. That means you can calculate the volume of material required so sink a desired amount of atmospheric carbon.

If you want to have a measurable impact on the atmosphere, say dialing it back to 1980 CO2 levels, you're talking not about making a pile of stuff but about making a mountain range that's a mile high and hundreds of miles long.

Now figure out how many trucks you're going to need to move that much material from where your sequestering machine is to where your pile of stuff is.

Or if you want to dump that material in the ocean (which someone else will certainly object to), extend your calculation to figure out how many container trucks worth of material you need to dump into the ocean every hour to accomplish your atmospheric cleanup in whatever amount of time you choose (a decade? If it takes a century, that's not fast enough).

And finally think about surface to volume ratios. You're trying to sink it into a volume, but you can only get the gas into the volume through its surface, so the speed of your process is limited by surface area.

If you want to do it with trees, my personal spitball estimates are that you probably need to plant somewhere between the entire state of Connecticut and the entire state of Colorado to have the kind of impact one would want (there's more subtlety to tree calculations than one generally likes to admit, so feel free to come in with way higher numbers than I did).

Which brings us back to economics. If you have a well-managed forest of that size and scale, someone is eventually going to come along, maybe in 100 years, maybe in 500 years, and say "hey if we cut this down, we could burn the wood to heat our homes" and all that carbon goes back into the atmosphere, so you actually need to sink it into something that is energetically unfavorable for recovery, which means you also need to expand a huge amount of energy to sink the carbon into that energetically unfavorable state.


Replies

tzstoday at 5:32 PM

If we took all the CO2 out of the atmosphere and converted the C into graphite and spread that uniformly over the top 10 subtropical deserts it would be around 2 cm deep.

This suggests a long term approach of building solar powered carbon capture plants in subtropical deserts, they capture it and convert to graphite, which is then spread out under the solar panels.

I once did the math on this, using the specs for currently available solar powered carbon capture, and it came out to something like if we used 100 years worth of the current production annual production of solar panels for this we could carbon capture at a rate that could drop the atmosphere from current levels of CO2 to pre-industrial levels in a few years even if we do not reduce emission rates.

So...not practical now, but might be feasible as a very long term project that over many decades builds out enough capacity to get things under control as long as we can keep everything from going to hell over that time.

marcosdumaytoday at 3:50 PM

> you're talking not about making a pile of stuff but about making a mountain range that's a mile high and hundreds of miles long.

Just to put it into numbers, wikipedia has the total amount of CO2 on the global warming page, if we assume it's in a 2 kg/l substance it totals to around 180 km^3.

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sokolofftoday at 5:16 PM

If we pull this off, I would not expect people 500 years from now to undo it.