I'll repeat, we don't know the long term outcome yet. Years not hours are what matters. The track record is very poor.

> you try to move the goalposts now

I do not agree. Long-term outcomes are what matter to the ordinary people in these countries, regardless of what scores points for internet posters today. Guessing outcomes today is very premature.

> I was spot on ... I'll take the high road.

What a smug and self-contradicting statement. This is no longer a serious conversation, have a good day.