alt Hacker NewsIt's funny how many people already see this as a book that is opened and closed on the same day. That's not how these things work. This is like the first stone of an avalanche. It could stop here, or it could roll on for quite a while. It will take months or even years to know whether or not the outcome here was desirable or not and what the final tally is.
Remember the 'Arab spring' and what came after.
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> It's funny how many people already see this as a book that is opened and closed on the same day.
What gives you that impression? I haven't seen a single comment that is surprised or wasn't aware of the existing history between the two nations, nor a single comment saying that "Ok, I'm glad/sad that that's over now". What comments specifically are you talking about?
> This is like the first stone of an avalanche.
And things have already happened. Close allies have stopped sharing intelligence information with the US. Even if the US doesn't need the info the deterioration of those partnerships is concerning. Or maybe good from the perspective of weakening the global surveillance machine but that's a whole other issue.
Not to mention all the other things that happen that when you put together are more concerning.
People forget, there are no real "big things".
Instead there's just a bunch of little things that come together to look big. As programmers we should be intimately familiar with this. Though normally we're using it in the other direction: taking a big problem and determining all the little problems that come together to create the big one. Working in the assembly direction is much harder than the disassembly direction (far larger solution space) but the concept is still the same.
But I agree with you, this isn't the end. This is definitely a concerning inflection point.
The Arab spring was a mass uprising, this was the removal of one person - it's really not the same.
Think of it this way - Maduro could had died from choking on a turkey bone over Christmas - would there inevitability be a civil war?
What matters is whether there is a fight for political power as a result - and particularly what the generals think. ie any fight is much more likely to start from the top rather than the bottom.
My guess, and it's just a guess, is that the smoothness of the extraction mission strongly suggests serious inside info/cooperation. ie somebody did a deal with the US - involving giving up Maduro in exchange for removal of the sanctions ( particularly oil which the US has escalated with tanker seizures ) which was crippling the country.
So my prediction is an internal smooth transition of power, cooperation around oil, with neither the US nor the new leader being keen on quick elections as that will interfere with the execution of the deal.
All the Trump cares about is the public 'win' and the oil and minerals flowing. The Venezuelan leadership will want to end the US sanctions and get the countries economy working again - if this happens they will think election prospects will improve - can't see Trump caring that much about Venezuelan internal politics as long as he get's the win and a positive flow of oil revenue and strategic access to minerals.
No matter the outcome, we are not here giving judgement on the action. We are here questioning how is any of this legitimate? How did we elect a person who promised to keep america out of foreign affairs but is now doing the same thing his predecessors did.
Not to disagree but venezuela's context is different from the middle east, and this was made so quickly it might cause a stable swap. Now that's just my bedroom geostrategist wannabee opinion and yeah it might create a long mess, especially knowing trump emotional profile, if things don't benefit him quick, he might add oil to the fire thinking he's the smartest.
Or... nothing will change at all. See the Fordow strike: attack another country, pull out unexpectedly, and pretend nothing ever happened.
These threads makes it depressingly obvious how "might makes right" is the main underlying principle in the end - albeit periodically latent. Suddenly proportionality disappears and it's one of the worst regimes out there, a narco-state. Obviously unlawful actions is reported as "legally questionable" etc. It doesn't even matter that the current US administration is an unusually vulgar example of erratic, dishonest, and self-serving leadership.
It obviously doesn’t end today but it should be fast.
When Noriega was arrested by the US, the legitimate president started operating normally a few days after.
To me this is one of those situations where regardless of what happens in Venezuela, there were better, more morally and legally justifiable, ways of achieving the same end.
Panama was an opened and closed book in practically less than a week.
Right on. We haven’t even tried to win the hearts and minds yet. Not to mention a surge or two.
I think it has been like this forever, since the beginning of human civilization.
And apart from the usual destabilisation possibilities, with the current US leadership there's no guarantee the outcome isn't Maduro agreeing to pay some oil revenues into Trump's personal bank account, makes some vague symbolic promise to stop drugs and emigrants and gets released to carry on as he was, but maybe with a few more internal scores to settle
? The arab spring came from the islamic world regularly building population powder kegs, without having a modern industrial society to keep these populations educated, fed and with a perspective beyond fanatic death-cultist movements.
The arab spring exploded, because obama rerouted us-surplus food from subsidizing allied regimes (egypt) into bio-fuels, causing wild price spikes to the bread prices in egypt and the arab world. These situations are not really comparable - like at all. Not even on the surface level.
As we saw in Iraq, Americans do not care. It creates opportunities for them anyway while someone else is going to bear consequences.
I think no americans are afraid of venezuela, so what could possibly come that we don’t want? you think venezuela can stand toe-to-toe in a full scale military engagement? you see how we just walked into their country, took the president, and his wife, and walked out without issue? have you seen how many venezuelans are celebrating?
Or Afghanistan
What?!? Not end in one day? Nonsense!
Soon you will be telling me the Taliban still run Kabul.
"Events in the present determine events in the future".
Very deep observation.
Maduro had to be removed, this is a win for Venezuela. On one side he's a criminal, on the other side people at the country are cheering for this [1].
He didn't even win the most recent election. I'll write that again, he was not elected.
I haven't seen a convincing argument about why it would have been better if he remained in power.
6 years ago to the day many people were hysterical when Trump offed Soleimani on his Baghdad field trip. Turned out it brought substantial positive change to the Middle East.
It may not work out this time but when you start from a terrible rock bottom status quo the chances are already biased.
Increased nuclear proliferation is a one of those possible paths.
Trump has done a great deal already to incentivize nuclear proliferation by destroying confidence that the US will be a reliable defensive ally.
>> Trump also said he believes that American companies will be “heavily involved” in rebuilding Venezuela’s oil infrastructure.[1]
There we have it. The real reason for the invasion. Looks like the start of yet another avalanche as you say.
Jan 6th, extrajudicial killings, ICE deportations, threatening to takeover Greenland, and now the kidnap of a foreign country's leader. The world needs to wake up and realise the USA is just China/Russia with better PR.
Edit: And now he's confirmed the US will run the country until they decide otherwise.
>> It's funny how many people already see this as a book that is opened and closed on the same day.
Trump just said in the press conference that from now on the US will run Venezuela...The US is "designating" the people that will run the country.
They mentioned the president of Colombia has to "watch his ass" and that Cuba is a mess. And said that the US will be selling the oil to other countries, and the US will take "our oil".
Insanity does not even starts to describe it...
> or it could roll on for quite a while
I hope to be wrong, but think it certainly will. all the money everyone is spending on arms it seems soon the only game left in town in the military industrial complex. the other career options are to become a doctor, or nurse.
the US in its current form is heading towards long drawn out collapse like the Roman empire, and they're dragging all their former allies down with them. there seem to be no peaceful options to prevent that collapse.
E.g.:
- I do not see any way they can modernize their messed up political system.
- their population is divided more than any country on the planet
- thanks to heavily propagandized citizens they don't have the critical mass to bring in change (not in a country where the companies have so much power)
Who is already seeing this as a book that is opened and closed on the same day?
Also, based on threats Trump has made and that recent national security proposal or whatever, it seems the administration is intent on regime change in Colombia, Cuba, and Mexico. I bet Brazil is watching its back too. So it’s really going to be many avalanches as America revives colonialism. All to the cheer of half the country.
I doubt any of our allies like Canada or European countries can trust us again.
Well it’s even simpler than that on paper. The government has a succession plan. Most likely outcome: Maduros party stays in power
It may actually mean next to nothing geopolitically other than to outrage the rest of the world and make Trump look tough.
Of course assuming that this is a book that was opened today and not many years ago, is the tell tale sign where this argument comes from.
The Arab world is different because the people are largely fundamentalist and there's many extremists while the governments are relatively moderate. So get rid of the government and all the extremists take over.
Venezuela is Catholic and while it definitely has crime issues, there's no religious/fundamentalist element to the violence so the odds of anyone fighting to the death to support their failed dictator and his ideology is slim to none.
Considering all the recent meddling of the USA around the world their track record is pretty bad. Higher chance it will end worse than they began with. Worse on an unpredictable way.
Neither Trump nor the GOP cares about the stability of the country or the health of its citizens. They care about distracting from problems (Epstein, affordability, etc) and about how they can extract Venezuela’s oil and minerals so they can make billions off this theft
https://english.elpais.com/international/2025-12-22/oil-gold...
As long as they can protect the mining and refining operations the rest doesn’t matter. And I fully expect the America First, America Only group that claims to be the next thing after MAGA, to find ways to justify this regime change and corruption.
Unfortunately, the action is perpetrated by the least capable amaerican government so theres slim chance ultimate good comes out.
Yup. Bangladesh’s government was toppled last year. With at least the tacit support of the Biden administration. Now the formerly banned Islamist is running #2 in the polls and looks like they will be part of a coalition government.
But in the end of the day, Arab spring worked just fine everywhere? In every single country where pro-Russian dictators were in power, they fell (Iran is not pro-Russian, just a potent enemy by itself, and is not Arab for that matter). Except Libya where they fell partially, with country being effectively split in halves. But this is already a big deal - there isn't a single pro-Russian regime now in the entire Arab world.
Why do you think it won't work like that with Venezuela?
PS: I realised that i made a mistake, so-called Palestine is absolutely pro-Russian, the entire ethnic group is created by Russians out of thin air in 1967, but it's a separate case and they did not participate in Arab Spring anyway.
> It could stop here, or it could roll on for quite a while. It will take months or even years to know whether or not the outcome here was desirable or not and what the final tally is.
So, your prediction is "anything is possible".
I gotta say nobody can disagree with that.
Yeah I remember Occupy protesters. I got trapped in a gaggle of them shouting “Tahir Square!” again and again. I literally lost hearing in one of my ears.
It never really recovered. Probably need a hearing aid, but I can just use the other one.
> It will take months or even years to know whether or not the outcome here was desirable or not and what the final tally is.
So you'd prefer.. inaction? So we know for a fact we will going to reach world peace ten years from now having done absolutely nothing?
This is the Ron Paul position and its a solid one.
The non-intervention principle applies if you are not actively suffering intervention.
The flaw however, is that applying non-intervention in this instance, is choosing to ignore the real, direct hurt currently endured by non-actors (LATAM + US citizens) from the policies of Maduro.
I do concede that whatever follows Maduro, may be worse.
If I'm getting poked by a neighbor for years and i finally punch back, punching is a valid response. If the neighbor then comes back later and shoots me with a gun, it doesn't mean that my self-defense act was invalid.
Reports that Maria Corina Machado (peace prize winner) will be the next leader - so that is a good sign. I've also seen many reports and videos of locals celebrating.
Considering the extreme amount of crime and violence that currently exists in Venesuela removing it's government without being able to put anything in its place will not be pretty at all...
Without a full military occupation it might just turn into another Haiti just on a much bigger scale. Of course US will probably have to intervene to "secure" the oil industry...