logoalt Hacker News

Panzer04last Monday at 12:43 AM6 repliesview on HN

And they will have to go find another job instead. It feels weird but this is how we raise living standards - removing human labor from production (or, in other words, increasing the amount produced per human)

Automation is a game of diffuse societal benefit at the expense of a few workers. Well, I guess owners also benefit but in the long term that extra profit is competed away.


Replies

elmomlelast Monday at 3:24 AM

That's a highly idealized view that I hope we can agree doesn't completely jive with what we see in society today. If a small number of shareholders reap all the profits, the vast majority of the benefit from automation flows to them, and it's even possible for the lives of average people to get worse as automation increases, as average people then have less leverage over those who own the companies.

show 4 replies
droopyEyelidslast Monday at 3:24 AM

There have been times historically where that was true but all productivity gains have been captured by the .1% for the past few decades.

show 2 replies
Cthulhu_last Monday at 10:37 AM

It's narrow vs wide views. Wide views, automation and the like has improved the economies massively. But narrow views, people have lost their jobs, had to retrain and basically restart their career, and some never found another job.

This isn't just automation btw, but also just business decisions, like merging companies, outsourcing, or moving production elsewhere - e.g. a lot of western European manufacturing has moved eastwards (eastern Europe, Asia, etc). People who have a 30+ years career in that industry found themselves on the proverbial street with another 10+ years until their retirement, and due to trickery (= letting their employer go bankrupt) they didn't even get paid a decent severance fee.

_heimdalllast Monday at 12:30 PM

I've not seen a correlation between automation and wealth, though there is an extremely string correlation between energy use and wealth.

I don't think its automation that increases living standards. We increase living standards by consuming more energy, and that often comes along with increasing the amount of costs we externalize to someone else (like pollution or deforestation, for example).

red-iron-pinelast Monday at 3:23 PM

> It feels weird but this is how we raise living standards

yeah but it's clear that we're not doing that, and are arguably going the other direction as hard as possible

j16sdizlast Monday at 6:00 AM

> removing human labor from production

Karl Marx would argue this evil because this take away the value and job satisfaction from the labour.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marx%27s_theory_of_alienation

show 1 reply