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sneaklast Friday at 7:53 PM5 repliesview on HN

It’s not an evil at all. For 99% of people who aren’t “computer people”, when we gave them that, we got the Bonzai Buddy and 47 other malware toolbars installed. Did we forget 2003 already?

App sandboxing and system file integrity is one of the most beneficial security features of modern computing, and the vast majority of people have no desire to turn it off. You can buy rootable phones. People overwhelmingly choose iPhones instead.

Even if Apple sold the SRD at scale, nobody would buy the weird insecure hacker iPhone except us and maybe kids who realllly want Fortnite.


Replies

hephaes7uslast Friday at 7:58 PM

The evil is enshrining other people's choices into law, unnecessarily.

There was never going to be anything preventing non-technical folks from buying iPhones. They can and should have what they like.

Why should there be a law that forces that same compromise onto anyone who can only afford a single device and needs to use it to access their bank?

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wolvoleolast Friday at 7:58 PM

> App sandboxing and system file integrity is one of the most beneficial security features of modern computing,

You can have sandboxing and system integrity while still giving the user overrides. But hey this is not Google and Apple's business model because it makes you less dependent on them. And it interferes with their sweet 30% rent-seeking app stores.

Mobile security works this way not because it's best for us but because it's best for making them money.

> You can buy rootable phones.

Eh yeah but the problem is of course being locked out of apps if you actually root it.

I don't want Google or Apple to decide what I can do with my phone. Or the government like in this case. This also opens the door for evil spyware like chatcontrol in europe. Even today they are trying to enforce a backdoor into whatsapp to block "harmful content" which is of course impossible without breaking or circumventing the E2E on-device.

> People overwhelmingly choose iPhones instead.

Maybe in America, not here in Spain. I guess not in Vietnam either.

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Brian_K_Whitelast Friday at 8:44 PM

It is an evil because there are infinite ways to solve any problem, not just this one. Describing some problem in no way validates any particular response as being even worth the trade-off let alone flat out necessary and unavoidable.

Further, the people promulgating this sort of solution know this. The evil is that they are wittingly using a problem as the excuse and the cover to get something else they want which they would otherwise never get and have no right to.

For everyone who is doing this knowingly, there are countless other sincere but unwitting tools haplessly just buying the line sold to them. So you might be able to say you are not evil for supporting this kind of policy, but all that means is that you are either a witting or unwitting tool of the evil policy.

"Rapes happen behind closed doors, therefore we have to remove all doors. No one denies that rape happens and that it's a bad thing. And it's irrerfutable that without doors that close, no one would be able to get away with a rape. And so, the only grown-up thing to do is agree to give up doors that close. It's not an evil at all."

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2OEH8eoCRo0last Friday at 9:13 PM

"I don't like Bonzi Buddy so people should be prevented from installing it."

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LoganDarklast Friday at 7:57 PM

The problem is mostly that normal people can't be trusted with system-level access but some people can. And it's literally, provably not possible to tell them apart.

For the masses, lack of system-level access is a benefit because they won't be able to ruin their device. For hackers and hobbyists, lack of system-level access is a hindrance because they won't be able to control their device.

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