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firefaxyesterday at 2:48 PM6 repliesview on HN

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amiga386yesterday at 3:19 PM

You will find that written constitutions are about as effective as unwritten ones; if the people in power choose to disregard them, and have popular support, they tend to get away with it for long enough to do damage.

Fun fact: The UK has the Magna Carta, the original bill of rights signed in 1215. Did you know that's 561 years before the US declared its independence from the UK? To put it another way, 561 years is more than double the length of time the US has been a country.

Second fun fact: UK Prime Ministers aren't elected. Their party is elected, and tends to command a majority in the House of Commons, but if they don't, they get to trade horses with other parties to see which coalition can command a majority, and thus win a confidence vote. The party selects a leader through their own internal processes. Doesn't even have to be an elected MP. Then they tell the king, who rubberstamps the decision. They can do this at any time, not just after an election. Provided the leader can command a majority in Parliament, they get to continue. If enough of your own party dislikes you as leader, they will vote against a confidence motion and drop themselves and you out of power; your job is to not let it get to that.

The House of Lords is a secondary chamber, which scrutinises what the House of Commons passes and suggests rewordings and rewrites. (There's a whole other layer of scrutiny at the committee stage, for costing, etc.) They can send back bad bills, but can't send them back indefinitely, if the government had that in its election manifesto, so appointed or not, they can't defy the "will of the people".

The king doesn't rock the boat, not because he fears for his life, but because he'd trigger a constitutional crisis which will inevitably resolve in the form of a republican UK.

exsometyesterday at 2:53 PM

This isn’t an accurate interpretation. The UK is a _constitutional_ monarchy, not an absolute monarchy, meaning that the monarchy exists and acts in accordance with the constitution.

In the case of the UK, some of the rituals (such as the one you’re referring to with the prime minister) are based on longstanding traditions, because humans are weird and we like those sorts of things, but the requirement to do that stems from the constitution, not from the King deciding if he likes the PM or not.

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monoosoyesterday at 2:57 PM

This may have been the case historically, but these days the king's role is largely ceremonial.

As to the House of Lords, around 11% of its members are hereditary peers. A bill [1] is in progress to reduce that to zero:

> The bill would remove membership from 89 hereditary peers who currently sit in the House. Their membership would end at the conclusion of the current parliamentary session.

So, in summary, the UK is a democracy with its own set of historical quirks, much like many other democracies (Electoral College, anyone?).

[1]: https://lordslibrary.parliament.uk/hereditary-peers-in-the-h...

afandianyesterday at 3:06 PM

We recently had a significant test of this. Boris Johnson asked the late Queen to prorogue (shut down) parliament in order to prevent debate on the Brexit negotiations between the UK and the European Union.

In theory he was asking permission from the Queen. But in practice, everyone knew that the Queen was powerless to reject his request. Even for something as plainly anti-democratic.

The Supreme Court eventually ruled that the prorogation was not lawful.

Lots of people were hoping that the Queen would stand up for the people. It was a complicated moment when she didn't!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_United_Kingdom_prorogatio...

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foldryesterday at 3:02 PM

>because [the King has] heard of what happened in France etc

And, err, in England: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Execution_of_Charles_I

>there is no "bill of rights"

There very literally is a bill of rights: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_of_Rights_1689

>which is akin to if we handed a bunch of decendants of the mayflower and rich industrialists and priests their own house of Congress.

The House of Lords does need reform, but this is not in any way an accurate picture of it since at least 1999 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Lords_Act_1999). When you strip away the historical baggage, the House of Lords is just an appointed second chamber. I'm fully in favor of removing the last vestiges of the hereditary principle in government, but hereditary peers do not have a significant amount of power in the current system.

>And when they "elect" a prime minister

Elections really do happen in the UK and really do determine who is Prime Minister. No need for the scare quotes here.

> so basically, there's this constant ritual of pretending they're a democracy when really it's only like that because the king current feels like it.

I'll resist the temptation to point out which country is more pertinently and accurately described this way in the present situation.

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9devyesterday at 3:28 PM

Even ignoring your flawed understanding of the UK's government, what is your glorious bill of rights worth at the end of the day? Your president just does whatever the hell he wants, ignoring any checks and balances as he sees fit. Freedom of speech? Well, as long as you don't criticise a certain deceased extremist, that is. Freedom of religion? Well, as long as you're a Christian. Freedom of the Press? As long as you're a right-wing influencer. Freedom of assembly? As long as you're not a Democrat. Right to petition the government? You might get shot by ICE agents for following their orders.

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