alt Hacker NewsAsk HN: How can we solve the loneliness epidemic?
Countless voiceless people sit alone every day and have no one to talk to, people of all ages, who don't feel that they can join any local groups. So they sit on social media all day when they're not at work or school. How can we solve this?
Comments
They'll come up with a drug that increases oxytocin and pro-social behavior maybe like a safe MDMA and that's the cure.
I think the solution will be large power outage.
I think the big solution consists of many small solutions. One problem I identified is that social media platforms (1) decimated local live music events coverage in mid-sized cities and (2) placed live music events into the same "filter bubble" algorithm as everything else, making it difficult for people to discover what is going on nearby.
I started https://musiclocal.org, a 501(c)(3), as a curated live music events platform for my local area (and hopefully others). We list all the live music events in the area, and we optimize the software for usability, performance, SEO, etc. The goal is to make discovering local live music events as easy as doom-scrolling. We have had an outstanding reception in the area we serve. We are not self-sustaining yet, but I am optimistic about our chances. As a non-profit, we do not do any of the dark-pattern garbage that has become omnipresent in social media and other consumer software. We just do the right thing as best we can.
Here is some more background (from our "Issues" page):
At MusicLocal, we focus on the root challenges facing local music communities to address endemic issues of negative social media practices, isolation and community polarization, and economic concentration and monopolization. Specifically:
• We believe convenient, comprehensive live music event listings are critical to reversing the decline in local music journalism. • We believe ethically designed, steward-curated live music event listings provide a vital alternative to addictive social media platforms. • We believe that making live music more visible and accessible encourages in-person interaction, strengthening communities and alleviating loneliness and social isolation. • We believe that local live music listings are a critical component of strong local economies, helping to lessen the negative economic consequences of big tech and music industry monopolies.
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"Technology has a purpose, and that purpose is to do good and to share" --Steve Wozniak
people act as if this is an individualist problem, but that ignores all the facts
the first place to think about serious change is city planning since the invention of cars & then suburbs
we used to be forced to live next to each other, walk and see each other
it turns our car based city planning doesn’t work on any level if you look at cities which didn’t go all in
People just don’t want to do stuff.
If I don’t ask my friends to hang out or play video games or whatever no one else will.
It’s been ten years, but we ran a dinner group, once a month, and met at various restaurants. Very popular.
Put the smartphone down in the evening
We need an open-source dating / social platform that isn’t designed to monetise loneliness.
We’ve outsourced forming relationships to profit-driven systems that trade comfort and convenience for reduced real-world social effort. By substituting the need to approach people in person, these platforms quietly erode social confidence and reinforce avoidance, exacerbating the social problems they claim to solve.
ban cars.
people aren't lonely in walkable cities.
have kids
my social life got pretty busy once i had multiple kids in school and having to go to various events etc, and i have formed genuine friendships with many of the other parents
my “soulless suburb” has a much stronger sense of community than any big city neighborhood i ever lived in
For me, the answer was smoking. I made a ton of friends that way. Always went out to a pool hall, a bar, or a nice patio so I could smoke. It was great. You can’t smoke in your rental so you gotta get out and find places to smoke. Few states you can do it in anymore though. I moved to a state with a smoking ban and quit smoking, no point to it. Don’t get out as much nowadays.
We can encourage people to start families and stop telling them that it's the end of anything fun.
Step one might be to stop calling it the loneliness epidemic. Loneliness is an emotion, isolation is a condition, and we might even expect that if people felt lonely more often they would try harder to be social and actually be less isolated. This is also a network effect: my reaction to my loneliness affects someone else's loneliness if I go talk to them (or not).
Is that "epidemic" really a thing? Has it been statically and scientifically observed?
Get off social media.. Learn to talk to people.. Making friends requires practise just exercise.
To a first order, how can we decrease percentage of people that are single should be the question.
1. Dont live in the suburbs. 2. Make an effort to see friends every week. 3. Log off.
Build human scale cities with narrow streets and lots of outdoor parks and easily accessible reliable and frequent public transportation.
Not our American excuse for cities ruled by automobiles and asphalt everywhere with very limited options of all of the above.
PS - I imagine I’ll be downvoted because the epidemic is world wide and not unique to the US. That said, our acute situation is unique in that our infrastructure literally steers you into loneliness and no chance of randomly bumping into people and striking conversation.
It's not perfect, but I've managed to make some friends on Bumble BFF, https://bumble.com/bff-us/ . If you are more of a one on one person and feel awkward in groups, this is the best thing i've found so far
Well, let's start by confronting and acknowledging the very strong case that we -- "we" here being the tech world in general, and the audience of this site -- bear a heavy burden of responsibility for it.
It could be argued that it was all inevitable given the development of the Internet: development of social media, the movement online of commerce and other activities that used to heavily involve "incidental" socialization, etc. And maybe it was. But "we" are still the ones who built it. So are "we" really the right ones to solve it, through the same old silicon valley playbook?
The usual thought process of trying to push local "community groups," hobby-based organizations etc is not bad, but I think it misses an important piece of the puzzle, which is that we've started a kind of death spiral, a positive feedback loop suppressing IRL interaction. People started to move online because it was easier, and more immediate than "IRL." But as more people, and a greater fraction of our social interaction moves online, "IRL" in turn becomes even more featureless. There are fewer community groups, fewer friends at the bar or the movies, fewer people open to spontaneous interaction. This, then, drives even more of culture online.
What use is trying to get "back out into the real world," when everyone else has left it too, while you were gone?
IMO it is not possible. The world has changed. Until modernity, people made connections out of economic necessity. Either you get a wife or have fun farming by yourself - literally it doesn't work so you die. Either you're friends with the baker or you don't get bread or get absolute shittiest-quality goods and you die. And so on. Shut-ins didn't exist because it was physically impossible to survive without leaving your room. No UberEats, no Amazon Prime, no remote work, no internet.
When the economic necessity to form relationships with others disappeared, the naked truth was exposed - most people don't fucking like each other. Yes, when you're starving to death you'll be friends with the guy who has potatoes, but when you can buy the damn potatoes yourself in the supermarket, you're not going to tolerate his smelly ass.
Most friendships form over common participation in a project. Doing something together, knowing that you have to put up with the other one to achieve higher goals. Without those goals, there are no incentives to deal with others. And what goals am I supposed to have if by doing nothing I already have a roof above my head, full fridge, clean house, and an entire library of video games?
Think about the main message of feminism: "Girl, you can make it in life without a man. Don't settle for an aggressive alcoholic just because that's the only option. You can do it yourself.". It perfectly captures how forming relationships turned from an asset into a liability.
Get a puppy. A puppy will get you moving on walks, empathize, and make you smile.
Why just join a local Kingdom Hall near you? People will genuinely love you there.
We all need screen-time limits.
People cannot help themselves.
Its too easy and satisfying to sit on your phone.
The answer is social media. But social is per se difficult like in real life.
From wikipedia: ” An epidemic (from Greek ἐπί epi "upon or above" and δῆμος demos "people") is the rapid spread of disease to a large number of hosts in a given population within a short period of time.”
As with covid, individual actions are not enough to stop the spread of the epidemic. You need vaccinations, health education, public policy etc. not just individual actions, so ”go dancing” and ”talk to people” doesn’t quite cut it.
Seems strange to me that at this site from the whole internet people don’t seem to see the connection between the raise of new technologies and lonelines (with a host of other mental health/social issues). And therefore this is the one problem the nerds don’t seem to be able to solve…
I cannot either, but I think we need to start looking at technology from a point of view of public health. Some sort of sociology/medical studies on the effects of computing on human body/mind and society.
This comment will get buried in the sea of individual responses here since I am too late. But for the dumpster divers, here is my contribution!
1. People have obscenely high standards for social interaction. If this person is not an outlier (in a good way) with their behaviors, it's just not going to happen. Most people have a very low tolerance for new people in their life. This has always existed to some degree but people today much prefer to listen to endless content from their favorite streamers, comedians, etc. and form parasocial relationships.
2. The environment for interacting with people has much higher stakes. Think about all the people who get recorded and posted on TikTok every single day. These are people doing it where you can see it - not just the Meta glasses people who remove the recording light. You can act like being a weirdo has no consequences but everyone has this extremely powerful device that can broadcast whatever you do to billions of people immediately - and you can suffer real consequences from this. Every crashout you have in any kind of crowd will be posted for eternity so that the world can see.
3. There is less and less benefit to having social networks/friends. Your friends aren't going to help you get a job, buy you a house, or meet your spouse. Meeting a spouse through friends is increasingly rare as online dating is dominating. As much as everyone complains, it is the major way people meet their spouse in major cities. People assume this is because friend networks are getting smaller but it's not due to that. It's because standards for interaction within friend groups has changed and standards for partners has changed. Unless you are prolific top 1% social maximizer, you are not going to run into anywhere near enough eligible people in your social network to meet your maximized match. We expect to completely maximize and find the best possible fit for our spouse now. Compromise of any kind is considered worse than dying alone. Cost of housing has exploded, jobs have become very hard to keep/find, and this turns everything into a transaction. Living with friends and kicking them out when they can't make rent is a tough but very real situation. People are more transactional because the economy dictates its necessities. Your family is the only thing that will bail you out - your friends can't overlook you skipping $2000/month in rent for 6 months.
There is more but anyway - loneliness epidemic is not going to get solved. It will continue to get worse until some kind of revolution which would require a complete reworking of our entire economy. I would accept this as the new normal and try to figure out how you can optimize your own individual experience in spite of all these things that are working against you. It is not worth trying to fight it on a systemic scale because there are simply too many components and the core cause is one our entire economy is based around. (A good investment is inherently counter to affordability)
You won't be able to until people will develop an appetite.
Give each of them a whistle or horn and send them to Minneapolis.
Why do they feel they can't join any local groups? Fix that.
Have kids, then you’ll crave just having five minutes alone. :D
Shutting down social media would help. Unrealistic, but true.
People are suffering from PCNS. Here is a great documentary about it https://youtu.be/9kqgF5O354E?si=5UMifCZuk_sP71m0
I wouldn't say I've "solved it" because the concept predates how bad things got. I had a life-changing realization on 01/01/01, but it was before the necessary technologies existed. So, I've watched, partially in horror, as Fuckerberg and others transformed the internet culture I helped shape into a candy-coated digital Inferno, a full-blown Dante in disguise.
I'm going to make a post and see what kind of feedback I get. But if all goes well, bro, you'll know it when you see it, and maybe you'll be there helping.
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Use Zoom to teach people how to speak your language.
Loneliness epidemic started 30+ years ago. There were books written in the 90s about it(bowling alone). Nothing modern can be blamed on it. If anything, social media is helping the crisis; not causing.
The 'fixes' has been established for just as long. My nearby 'community centre' was built in 1987. Has this been successful at all? Not in the least bit.
The reality of what is causing this hasnt changed. Without fixing this key problem, the crisis obviously has continued for 30+ years. I'm not nostradamus here. However, from many previous conversations it's crazy how absolutely nobody is ready to talk about the cause. They'd rather just call it a paradox or feign ignorance for why this is happening. Honestly it's rather conspiratorial creating when you think about it.
Out of curiousity I asked what gemini 3 pro thinks.
1. Revival of third places.
As if that hasnt been tried for 30+ years... fail.
2. replacing 'socializing' with "service"
The idea is that cleaning a park will somehow make you less lonely is laughable at best.
3. Bridging the generational gap.
Elderly teach the young skills? while youth teach digital literacy. My community centre literally has this. F mark.
4. Urban design and walkability.
We need to spend trillions of dollars to completely redesign and rebuild cities? lol what.
5. digital hygiene
social media is a sedative? crazy.
I love gemini, but man they are getting it so wrong. All of this will likely just caused the crisis to be worse in my opinion.
To me, has this been done unintentionally through the typical 'road to hell is paved with good intentions' or has this been intentionally done and maintained? The refusal to acknowledge the cause seems to push toward intentional. Guess we just live with the loneliness epidemic.
At the societal level this trend has been happening for decades, and not just in the west. It’s a global trend correlated with the degree of integration into the “global machine.” This machine commodifies and extracts. It extracts more money if you’re lonely. If you’re isolated. If community is replaced with cold market exchange. If all your needs and wants are solved with a purchase or a monetized distraction.
Yet even when the system makes it hard to imagine anything else, we’re never too far from our true nature. We need only take a step towards a neighbor and carve a space, no matter how small, separate from the machine. That’s the only way out.
Being happy with yourself and being OK that you're not advancing anymore (you're just happy and don't have anything to pursue), or raising a family. The only two ways.
Loneliness is bad, but other people are worse.
I don't believe in a 'loneliness epidemic'. Where is it? What do these words mean to individuals?
I do think there is a 'false expectation' ie delusion. Ie, after years of forced hyper-socialisation (school, work) and cultural ideas of friendship (Friends), architecture that stacks and packs people, the expectation that people hold of themselves and their relationships bears little relation to their natural, untrained selves. I could even argue that the loneliness expectation is the reverse - there is no meaningful quiet space for individuals. The very idea of being introspective is a problem to be addressed.
What I think we have is 'broken socialisation'. Nothing about human socialisation is natural.
Ban cell phones.
I would suggest for the crowd here: tech meetups, even online ones and communities will connect you to people with your interests.
Another thing that you'll likely find in your area is a chess club.
Maybe you won't love the chess itself, but it's an excuse to hang out with people.
Another one is volunteering work. Elderly, dogs, etc, many communities need help.
In my village I have started a "clean up" program where average citizens take few bags a picker and we clean areas of our village.
Most of people are "this is the job of the garbage collectors, the mayor should do it", so what? It also costs money, and nobody will do as carefully as the people living there.
Even if 95% of my village won't care few will and we make an impact and socialize, etc and more start taking part of it.
loneliness is not really transmissible like an epidemic. If two lonely people get together, they aren’t lonely anymore.
Your problem statement is problematic.
I felt lonely most of my life. Social anxiety didn't help. Therapy did.
Now I build a life focused on that very much. I go to work at wework, talk to people *everywhere*, joined a bunch of run clubs and just prioritize social stuff. If I don't ask people, walk up to them and say hi, nothing's gonna happen. Reach out to people, say hi, do stuff. Loneliness correlates with low agency I think. Say yes to stuff. Ask people to join for coworking, for going to the gym, a run. Whatever. Go out of your way to increase your social circle. That simple.
And get off your fucking screen and go outside, touch some grass. The internet doesn't help.
Lobby to shut down social media that doesn't encourage real life interaction. I honestly think things will keep getting worse until we unplug them.
Others have said a longer version of this:
Be the change you want to see in the world.
Do it yourself. Don't wait on others. Organize social events, invite people.