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motoxproyesterday at 7:54 PM7 repliesview on HN

I've always thought walled gardens are the effect of consumer preferences, not the cause.

The effect of the internet (everything open to everyone) was to create smaller pockets around a specific idea or culture. Just like you have group chats with different people, thats what IG and Snap are. Segmentation all the way down.

I am so happy that my IG posts arent available on my HN or that my IG posts arent being easily cross posted to a service I dont want to use like truth social. If you want it to be open, just post it to the web.

I think I don't really understand the benefit of data portability in the situation. It feels like in crypto when people said I want to use my Pokemon in game item in Counterstrike (or any game) like, how and why would that even be valuable without the context? Same with a Snap post on HN or a HN post on some yet-to-be-created service.


Replies

dameisyesterday at 8:04 PM

>I am so happy that my IG posts arent available on my HN or that my IG posts arent being easily cross posted to a service I dont want to use like truth social.

ATProto apps don't automatically work like this and don't support all types of "files" by default. The app's creator has to built support for a specific "file type". My app https://anisota.net supports both Bluesky "files" and Leaflet "files", so my users can see Bluesky posts, Leaflet posts, and Anisota posts. But this is because I've designed it that way.

Anyone can make a frontend that displays the contents of users PDSs.

Here's an example...

Bluesky Post on Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/dame.is/post/3m36cqrwfsm24

Bluesky Post on Anisota: https://anisota.net/profile/dame.is/post/3m36cqrwfsm24)

Leaflet post on Leaflet: https://dame.leaflet.pub/3m36ccn5kis2x

Leaflet post on Anisota: https://anisota.net/profile/dame.is/document/3m36ccn5kis2x

I also have a little side project called Aturi that helps provide "universal links" so that you can open ATProto-based content on the client/frontend of your choice: https://aturi.to/anisota.net

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jrowenyesterday at 8:21 PM

I agree. I don't understand the driving force here.

I have all of the raw image files that I've uploaded to Instagram. I can screenshot or download the versions that I created in their editor. Likewise for any text I've published anywhere. I prefer this arrangement, where I have the raw data in my personal filesystem and I (to an extent) choose which projections of it are published where on the internet. An IG follow or HN upvote has zero value to me outside of that platform. I don't feel like I want this stuff aggregated in weird ways that I don't know about.

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jrvyesterday at 8:09 PM

> I think I don't really understand the benefit of data portability in the situation.

Twitter was my home on the web for almost 15 years when it got taken over by a ... - well you know the story. At the time I wished I could have taken my identity, my posts, my likes, and my entire social graph over to a compatible app that was run by decent people. Instead, I had to start completely new. But with ATProto, you can do exactly that - someone else can just fork the entire app, and you can keep your identity, your posts, your likes, your social graph. It all just transfers over, as long as the other app is using the same ATProto lexicon (so it's basically the same kind of app).

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danabramovyesterday at 8:05 PM

>The effect of the internet (everything open to everyone) was to create smaller pockets around a specific idea or culture. Just like you have group chats with different people, thats what IG and Snap are. Segmentation all the way down.

I actually agree with that. See from the post:

>For some use cases, like cross-site syndication, a standard-ish jointly governed lexicon makes sense. For other cases, you really want the app to be in charge. It’s actually good that different products can disagree about what a post is! Different products, different vibes. We’d want to support that, not to fight it.

AT doesn't make posts from one app appear in all apps by default, or anything like that. It just makes it possible for products to interoperate where that makes sense. It is up to whoever's designing the products to decide which data from the network to show. E.g. HN would have no reason to show Instagram posts. However, if I'm making my own aggregator app, I might want to process HN stuff together with Reddit stuff. AT gives me that ability.

To give you a concrete example where this makes sense. Leaflet (https://leaflet.pub/) is a macroblogging platform, but it ingests Bluesky posts to keep track of quotes from the Leaflets on the network, and display those quotes in a Leaflet's sidebar. This didn't require Leaflet and Bluesky to collaborate, it's just naturally possible.

Another reason to support this is that it allows products to be "forked" when someone is motivated enough. Since data is on the open network, nothing is stopping from a product fork from being perfectly interoperable with the original network (meaning it both sees "original" data and can contribute to it). So the fork doesn't have to solve the "convince everyone to move" problem, it just needs to be good enough to be worth running and growing organically. This makes the space much more competitive. To give an example, Blacksky is a fork of Bluesky that takes different moderation decisions (https://bsky.app/profile/rude1.blacksky.team/post/3mcozwdhjo...) but remains interoperable with the network.

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jimbokuntoday at 3:23 AM

Ever heard of the World Wide Web?

It was great. Anyone could host web pages, anyone could access and read anyone’s web pages with a tool called a web browser, of which there used to be several compatible implementations.

hahahahhaahtoday at 6:52 AM

Posts feel less valuable as files as they are of the moment. I don't need this comment as a docx, thank you all the same.

So I agree.

Maybe building it that way opens possibilities I can't see?

But for functional apps it seems useful to have a file you can download and use somewhere else. Images and movies are a great example. I can record a video in Loom and chuck it on Youtube. Youtube can't lock me on that video. it is my file. Imagine if that was not the case. It would suck.

extraduder_iretoday at 12:44 AM

If truth social didn't remove all the federation code, posts from mastodon and many other ActivityPub sites would have appeared there.