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CGMthrowawaytoday at 3:02 AM12 repliesview on HN

I never understood the big push for full EVs over hybrid. Roughly speaking, a hybrid gets double the MPG of an ICE car, and a BEV gets double the MPGe of a hybrid. But BEVs require you to add a plug to your garage to get a rapid refuel, when your whole neighborhood gets them it strains the grid, you are range limited, etc...

My hunch is there are some laws or regs somewhere that kept hybrids from really taking off (or rather, they were taking off.. then suddenly were suppressed). Which is why I don't interpret headlines like these to mean "consumers have crossed the tipping point" - in many cases it is incentive-driven, not pure consumer demand.

The EU is committed to the full EV route and that is not changing. But it's not taking hold in the US, and over the next few years the big thing we will see being sold is actually EREVs, which are BEVs with a gas generator attached to charge the battery (yes, really).

Source: in the industry


Replies

mpynetoday at 5:01 AM

> I never understood the big push for full EVs over hybrid.

Being able to shed the ICE bits from the car's powertrain eliminates multiple entire classes of maintenance burden. With hybrid and EREV you get the problems of both types of powerplant and drivetrain, and even though ICE has evolved to be fairly reliable, it's still a very complicated assembly and basic wear-and-tear still is still a challenge.

There will probably be parts of the country where hybrid or EREV make sense for some period of time due to the distances involved and the incredible energy density of gasoline, but a lot of the driving that happens day to day can already be handled with pure EVs as long as you have a 120V plug accessible to your car.

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sitharustoday at 3:16 AM

Don't most people already have a plug in their garage? All mine certainly have. There's no need to get full EVSE for most people, a 2.4kW outlet as found almost everywhere outside North America will easily handle daily driving needs for anyone who's not in a travelling job.

Also if everyone in your neighbourhood turning on a space heater strains the grid you have bigger problems.

Utilities have plenty of ways to solve that. We already have electric water heaters on demand controlled circuits and electricity billing that incentivises off-peak use.

And as for range? 400km is plenty for all but one trip a year, if that's an issue for your use perhaps EVs are not for you.

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marcus_holmestoday at 4:51 AM

Every time an EV driver charges their car at home, a gas station loses a customer.

Eventually this compounds and gas stations start closing.

That accelerates the switch to EVs because gas becomes hard to find. Which accelerates gas station closures, and so on.

The point at which it becomes impractical to drive a gas-fuelled car is approaching. It will hit different countries at different times, but it's there. 10 years, 30 years, whatever, but it's coming.

Long before that point, a hybrid is just an EV that has to carry around a chunk of useless engine that is hard to fuel.

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triceratopstoday at 3:50 AM

> BEVs require you to add a plug to your garage to get a rapid refuel

You hardly ever need a rapid refuel in your garage though. That's where your car spends most of its hours.

And most of the world has 220/240v mains supply: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mains_electricity_by_country. Regular wall outlets can charge a car fast enough outside North America.

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dmixtoday at 3:13 AM

The main issue will always be price. Whether that's purchase price, resale, or maintenance. Even the budget brand cars from South Korea and Ford can figure out the basics of interior/exterior design where customers are happy. That mostly just leaves the price and it's only gone up.

Car prices have increased well above the rate of inflation over the last decade and even used cars are more expensive than ever. Average new car price is $50k, mostly because EVs are so expensive https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a69047202/average-new-car-...

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toephu2today at 5:13 AM

A bit sad that you're in the industry and you don't understand why pure EVs are better than hybrids.

Full EVs: Less moving parts = less maintenance required = less issues to worry about (think no oil changes, no timing belt changes, no spark plug replacements, no belt/filter changes, no exhaust system checks, etc).

Also zero emissions = better air quality around you.

Bonus: it's like waking up with a full take of gas every morning

I've owned my full EV for almost 10 years now and had 0 maintenance done whatsoever (apart from tire rotation and window wiper fluid replacement). I would never go back to an ICE vehicle.

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bruce511today at 4:56 AM

>> I never understood the big push for full EVs over hybrid

Weight, space and reliability.

Dragging that generator (and fuel) around costs weight and space, reducing range. Exhaust, fuel tank, radiator- all the support systems the ICE motor needs. Which leaves less space for batteries, which reduces range.

Plus, the maintenance burden is still there. All those ICE parts still need all the maintainence etc that full ICE needs. One of the joys of EV is that maintainence is sooo much simpler.

So yes, hybrid is much more efficient than gas only, but a poor cousin of full EV.

By contrast full EV has range limitations. And yes distances in Europe are much shorter than the US. No that's less of an issue there. But even there we're seeing range go up, and charging come down.

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IrishTechietoday at 6:22 AM

I rented a hybrid recently while my car was in for a service. Picked it up, drove home (25 mins on motorway) then returned it the next day. It spent all of that time burning petrol while popping up notices about all the reasons it couldn’t use electricity right now (too cold, too fast etc).

All ICE cars should have been hybrid from 5-10 years ago but it is a stepping stone we should already be stepping off.

thelastgallontoday at 3:44 AM

Its not an unsurmountable problem as Americans think. Just works like how you plug in your phone. Most of the world has electricity at home.

sheepybloketoday at 4:58 AM

My uncle works in the industry and was getting a new car recently. His two options were all electric or all ICE, because from his experience, EHEVs have the problems of both ICE and BEV vehicles.

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mooglytoday at 7:23 AM

This comes off like "I never understood why not everyone still uses landlines".

wilgtoday at 7:21 AM

Well, a hybrid doesn't solve the problem. We don't need to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, we need to zero them out. You can't do that if you sometimes burn gas.

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