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ezfeyesterday at 9:30 PM1 replyview on HN

Okay, so yes I grant your point that people where governments are the threat model should be auditing source code.

I also grant that many things are possible (where the journalist says "isn't possible").

However, what remains true is that Microsoft appears to store this data in a manner that can be retrieved through "simple" warrants and legal processes, compared to Apple where these encryption keys are stored in a manner that would require code changes to accomplish.

These are fundamentally different in a legal framework and while it doesn't make Apple the most perfect amazing company ever, it shames Microsoft for not putting in the technical work to accomplish these basic barriers to retrieving data.


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jcalvinowensyesterday at 11:57 PM

> retrieved through "simple" warrants and legal processes

The fact it requires an additional engineering step is not an impediment. The courts could not care less about the implementation details.

> compared to Apple where these encryption keys are stored in a manner that would require code changes to accomplish.

That code already exists at apple: the automated CSAM reporting apple does subverts their icloud E2E encryption. I'm not saying they shouldn't be doing that, it's just proof they can and already do effectively bypass their own E2E encryption.

A pedant might say "well that code only runs on the device, so it doesn't really bypass E2E". What that misses is that the code running on the device is under the complete and sole control of apple, not the device's owner. That code can do anything apple cares to make it do (or is ordered to do) with the decrypted data, including exfiltrating it, and the owner will never know.

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