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kittywantsbaconyesterday at 5:43 PM4 repliesview on HN

From the bottom:

> This is a rendition, not a translation. I do not know any Chinese. I could approach the text at all only because Paul Carus, in his 1898 translation of the Tao Te Ching, printed the Chinese text with each character followed by a transliteration and a translation. My gratitude to him is unending.


Replies

lubujacksonyesterday at 6:31 PM

Having done a similar "rendition" to a book of poetry, I agree it is not the same as translating directly. It does open up a question about the fuzziness of "what is even translation?"

Especially when we talk about translating historic writing. Yes, not knowing the source language is a huge barrier. But so is not knowing specific cultural touchstones or references in the text. In-depth translations usually transliterate as a part of the process. Many words and language patterns are untranslatable, which is why perfect translations are impossible.

When translating poetry, issues of meter and rhythm are even more important. It comes down to what the purpose of a translation is meant to achieve. Yes, there are ideas and themes but there is no hiding the fact that translators always imprint their own perspective on a work - it's unavoidable and personally shouldn't even be the goal.

Most translators of popular texts look closely at other translations to "triangulate" on meaning and authorial intent. Older translations may use archaic writing but have historical understanding, well-researched translations may be more precise about tricky words or concepts. More "writerly" translations tend to rebuild the work from the building blocks and produce a more cohesive whole. None of these are wrong approaches.

I like the term "rendition" because it throws away the concept of the "authoritative translation". I like to think of translations the same way as cover songs. The best covers may be wildly different from the original but they share the same roots.

As a reader, if you can't ever "hear" the original because you don't know thr language you can still appreciate someone's "cover version", or triangulate the original by reading multiple translations.

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2b3a51yesterday at 7:24 PM

The Library of Congress very generously provides a scan of the Paul Carus translation [1].

The transliteration of the Tao starts on page 159 and consists of columns of the characters each with a literal meaning and occasional comments by the translator. I found the first few chapters in that presentation very interesting, like a kind of puzzle (I don't read Chinese to any extent at all).

[1] https://www.loc.gov/item/34009062/

raincoleyesterday at 5:47 PM

Honestly, even if you know Chinese, it's very hard to translate Tao Te Ching into English.

Hell, it's hard to translate it into Chinese. Even the first paragraph is controversial. For example this rendition says:

> The name you can say

> isn’t the real name.

However, in a 5th century interpretation[0], it's more akin to:

> The fame and wealth the mortals praise are not a natural state.

(My extremely simplified paraphrasing)

[0]: https://ctext.org/wiki.pl?if=gb&chapter=491818

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hoshyesterday at 6:46 PM

I have a hard copy of that book.

She’s captured the poetry and beauty of the received text very well. (I’ve tried my own hand at a translation and read a few other translations).