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mytailorisrichtoday at 11:35 AM5 repliesview on HN

As I mentioned in another comment, if the EU is sovereign then member states no longer are, and if member states are sovereign then the EU isn't and still defers to member states.

That's why I think the way the term "sovereign" is thrown around is misleading and in fact part of push to transfer more control, and in fine sovereignty, to the EU from member states. People can decide if that's good or bad but the process is misleading.

HN is about curiosity and it seems that commenters do not use any as soon as the EU is mentioned but rather accept the official narrative without questions. The trend is to reduce member states' sovereignty, not to increase it, while the EU is taking over.


Replies

pjc50today at 2:22 PM

I think this is a valid point; France is sovereign now in a way that Texas isn't, for example. Texas doesn't have an independent nuclear deterrent. Or, more to the point, Minnesota.

But the rationale is clear. Europe has spent too many centuries and too many lives in warfare. There is no way forwards that isn't some kind of unified structure with the guns pointed outwards.

Fnoordtoday at 4:18 PM

This is akin to States in United States losing sovereignty to the United States Federal government. It is a balancing act between the two, and calling the USA (or the specific States) therefore not sovereign isn't about curiosity; it is intellectually dishonest. Surely you can do better if you want a discussion where curiosity reigns.

> [...] and in fine sovereignty, to the EU from member states [...]

This no longer works if NATO doesn't exist or if those member states get under military pressure by either Russia or the United States.

The narrative you mention is spread by alt-right trolls in order to lower the power the EU has. It is called divide and conquer.

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philipwhiuktoday at 3:19 PM

In this case though, control is moving not from France to the EU but from the US to the EU.

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shafyytoday at 11:42 AM

It is correct that EU member states are not 100% sovereign, they need to implement EU law.

It's also correct that the term "sovereign" is used incorrectly in this headline; I think what they meant to say is "independence".

> [...] it seems that commenters do not use any as soon as the EU is mentioned but rather accept the official narrative without questions.

Which narrative is that?

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