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bedersyesterday at 7:38 PM9 repliesview on HN

As someone who is roughly in the same age group as the author and who was running a BBS, has witnessed the rise of IP4 networks, HTTP, Mosaic etc. let me provide a counter-point.

The democratization ends at your router. Unless you are willing to lay down your own wires - which for legal reasons you most likely won't be able to do, we will hopelessly be dependent on the ISP. (Radio on free frequencies is possible and there are valiant attempts, they will ultimately remain niche and have severe bandwidth limitations)

For decades ISP have throttled upload speeds: they don't want you to run services over their lines. When DSL was around (I guess it still is) in Germany, there was a mandatory 24h disconnect. ISP control what you can see and how fast you can see it. They should be subject to heavy regulation to ensure a free internet.

The large networks, trans-atlantic, trans-pacific cables, all that stuff is beyond the control of individuals and even countries. If they don't like your HTTP(S) traffic, the rest of the world won't see it.

So what you can own is your local network. Using hardware that is free of back-doors and remote control. There's no guarantee for that. If you are being targeted even the Rasperry Pi you just ordered might be compromised. We should demand from our legislators that hardware like this is free of back-doors.

As to content creation: There are so so many tools available that allow non-technical users to write and publish. There's no crisis here other than picking the best tool for the job.

In short: there's no hope of getting a world-wide, free, uncensored, unlimited IP4/6 network back. We never had it in the first place.


Replies

m4rtinkyesterday at 11:49 PM

>The democratization ends at your router. Unless you are willing to lay down your own wires - which for legal reasons you most likely won't be able to do, we will hopelessly be dependent on the ISP. (Radio on free frequencies is possible and there are valiant attempts, they will ultimately remain niche and have severe bandwidth limitations)

I don't know - the rate of adoption of MeshCore and similar technologies is quite astonishing.

shevy-javayesterday at 7:57 PM

> In short: there's no hope of getting a world-wide, free, uncensored, unlimited IP4/6 network back. We never had it in the first place.

We can build such a society. I am not sure why you think this is never possible.

People can work for a better world. That sometimes works, too.

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dollylambdayesterday at 8:06 PM

> We should demand from our legislators that hardware like this is free of back-doors

In some countries that may be possible (if only for now). Where chips are produced makes that an impossibility for most. That is, you can have certain guarantees if you run the chip fab, although if you are downstream of that, it can be a tall order to guarantee your chips are sovereign. So, while I like the sentiment that you have some sort of control behind your router, I'm really unsure how true that is given the complexity of producing modern day chips. Disclaimer, not an expert, just an opinion.

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xg15yesterday at 10:05 PM

> The large networks, trans-atlantic, trans-pacific cables, all that stuff is beyond the control of individuals and even countries. If they don't like your HTTP(S) traffic, the rest of the world won't see it.

Not really having a plan here, so if nothing else this is out of curiosity, but I'd like to know who is actually owning that stuff.

For something that seems so ubiquitous and familiar like the internet, it would probably be good to understand who owns most of its infrastructure.

nine_kyesterday at 10:50 PM

> there's no hope of getting a world-wide, free, uncensored, unlimited IP4/6 network back.

What do you mean "back"? It was never free, as in zero-cost. It was also not very unlimited; I remember times when I had to pay not only for the modem time online, but also for the kilobytes transferred. Uncensored, yes, because basically nobody cared, and the number of users was relatively minuscule.

The utopia was never in the past, and it remains in the future. I still think that staying irrelevant for large crowds and big money is key.

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phendrenad2yesterday at 11:24 PM

This is just the "No True Scotsman" fallacy (with a dash of "appeal to tradition" fallacy). Yes, the internet has never been perfect, but it was really good for most users a long time and has only lost freedom for the majority of users recently with the rise of coordinated multi-state online censorship. Yes, there have been problems in the past, but if you can't compare now to then and see that things have radically shifted, I don't know what else to say to convince you.

singpolyma3yesterday at 9:08 PM

To be fair with fibre to the home rolling out in more and more places upstream speeds are improving.

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kokaneeyesterday at 8:16 PM

There's also no hope of creating a web that is resistant to enshittification and power consolidation as long as it can technically support any form of economic transaction.