logoalt Hacker News

jwilliamsyesterday at 9:25 PM4 repliesview on HN

It was genuinely a surprise to see how much relative energy petrol cars use (and shame on me - I'm an electrical engineer). I mean I think I knew it intuitively, but this simple chart blew my mind.


Replies

MerrimanIndyesterday at 9:30 PM

When one gets in the weeds on EVs or ICE cars two things become shockingly clear: internal combustion is hilariously inefficient YET gasoline is hilariously energy dense. Most people's intuition is wrong on both of these points but then they cancel each other out.

Edit: another important point is that the "cost" to acquire gasoline is only the very end of the process. The energy has already been gathered, stored, and most of the processing is complete. Our cost (in money and energy) to "make" gasoline is really just gathering it. This is why the comparison to renewables is often a hard sell, it's just apples to oranges. Gasoline started on third base, renewables are batting from the plate. Some of the internal combustion enthusiasts are holding up e-fuels or synthetic fuels as the solution but then we have to pay for the entire energy gathering and processing pipeline and still be using a conversion method that's not at all efficient. It's the worst of both worlds.

show 5 replies
j16sdiztoday at 1:41 AM

But that's not an apple-to-apple comparison.

Like, if you "save energy" by not driving a petrol car, you can't "use the same energy" on electric car, or lighting.. not even prower a generator.

They are not interchangeable.. But this chart encourage us to think them as the same.

ropabletoday at 2:35 AM

It gets across just how ridiculously energy-dense liquid petroleum fuels are.

tl2doyesterday at 9:44 PM

In Japan, my country, this looks a bit different. A lot of electricity still comes from oil- and gas-fired plants. The mechanics differ (gas turbines vs. car engines), but in both cases we’re still relying on combustion. I suppose some countries have the same issue.

show 1 reply