logoalt Hacker News

UBI Is Your Productivity Dividend – The Only Way to All Share What We All Built

65 pointsby 2noametoday at 4:37 PM57 commentsview on HN

Comments

randersontoday at 5:46 PM

I'm UBI-curious, but surely inflation would be inevitable if everyone suddenly had $x more disposable income per year? Landlords and grocery stores and everyone else would raise prices because they know people can afford it. Obviously if you're living in poverty, anything is better than nothing, but would the average middle class person be better off? As far as I can tell no country has ever tested true UBI (unconditional and for all residents) so its all theoretical.

Musk's idea of a Universal High Income (where money is no longer necessary because robots and AI give us anything we want) sounds great too until you consider scarce resources like land. Who decides who gets to buy the best properties on Earth if money is no longer a factor? What if you want, say, a human hair stylist or therapist: who would do such a job if they don't have to? We would lose the human touch in our lives, and that sounds awful.

show 10 replies
K0balttoday at 6:19 PM

UBI is the actual solution, and is well understood enough now to know that most of the arguments against it are moot points or simply falsehoods.

Unfortunately, with regulatory capture at near 100 percent and electoral capture almost as bad, there is no incentive structure with sufficient influence to make it happen. Wealth will continue to be funneled to the top, and taxation schemes that act as a de-facto sales tax create incentives that favor even more centralized systems.

But wouldn’t it be great?

An interesting aspect is that I am constantly observing innovators with significant technical and technological skills that are employed in fields outside of their expertise as a “temporary “ measure that often becomes permanent if they get further encumbered, simply because they can keel out an existence while trying to build the next cool thing. So we are wasting probably trillions of GDP in talent because people need to go work in a labor job to support their wife and child instead of continuing his very promising project in training data for humanoid robots, which could easily net 100m+ in the next decade. (Actual example. I offered him $1000 a month to keep on it, but he unfortunately needs more to survive and he has eaten through his savings over the past two years of working on it.)

show 4 replies
ambicaptertoday at 5:41 PM

The only way? What about built out infrastructure? What about universal health care? What about enforcing laws? What about enforcing truth in advertising? What about punishing various types of crooks in the various markets and transactions, financial and otherwise, that ordinary people take part in?

The only way? Like a silver bullet? Like that thing that the common idiom says doesn't exist?

show 3 replies
GeoAtreidestoday at 6:35 PM

instead of UBI, we could just reduce working hours, while keeping the same pay. Easier to manage shifts than to upend the whole economy. Something like 3 days a week, with a german approach to sundays (everything closed).

ciwchristoday at 5:56 PM

I recently came across the idea of Universal Basic Capital (UBC): "granting every person a meaningful ownership stake in productive assets from birth." UBC would be enormously difficult to implement, as well as have its own weaknesses. It doesn't seem realistic, but introduces a new idea into the conversation.

https://www.digitalistpapers.com/vol2/autorthompson#:~:text=...

show 1 reply
markus_zhangtoday at 6:24 PM

UBI is good on paper but far from enough. Without Universal Ownership of the State, UBI is easily removed by inflation.

A better yet more difficult model is universal basic resources (food stamp to exchange for packages, social housing, etc.). People can work X hours on these social projects after reviewing some training (e.g. training of plumbing to maintain the social housing apartments). This also gives them some meaning in life. Of course this will degrade in the future if there is no ownership of the state by the people, but I think it’s going to last longer.

show 1 reply
neversupervisedtoday at 6:16 PM

UBI will likely be necessary but that won’t appease society. Everyone wants to have a chance to climb the ladder. If it becomes self evident that humans can no longer have a meaningful impact on their outcome, there’ll be riots whether they have a roof and food or not.

softwaredougtoday at 6:21 PM

What if we build UBI but we turn out not to need it? Thats my worry. AI might possibly be “just another technology”. If we put in UBI we may disincentivize labor from adapting to an economic shift.

The real solution is to regulate the industry and break up monopolies. UBI is the modern equivalent of Walmart workers on Medicaid and food stamps. It’s raiding public funds for private profit.

shahmeerntoday at 5:36 PM

Does UBI really solve the problem, wouldn’t it just make everything more expensive?

show 5 replies
xixixaotoday at 6:23 PM

If you believe UBI can work, why do you think communism failed?

show 1 reply
wstrangetoday at 5:48 PM

UBI will require a more progressive tax system. The Oligarchs are having none of that.

wartywhoa23today at 5:50 PM

Communists shared alright 110 years ago in Russia, tens of millions of people failed to cope with that much prosperity and wellbeing, and then even more with unbearable freedom and peace.

show 1 reply