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lyu07282today at 3:08 PM1 replyview on HN

> and in the west the left is firmly the "establishment"

When I think of the left i think of socialists and anarchists, the establishment you mean are liberals, meaning pro-market/privatization/etc. It always amazes me how the right was able to sell themselves as anti-establishment with the average politically uneducated person. The right also pushes the surveillance state forward, the most substantial surveillance legislation in US history, the Patriot act was bipartisan for instance.


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dismalaftoday at 4:24 PM

You're being intentionally obtuse, shifting the goal posts.

It doesn't matter what you claim to think the left is, the left absolutely is the establishment. And if you think there's no authoritarian wing of the left you're either blind or lying. Leftist states are absolutely authoritarian, from the UK jailing people for social media posts to China to extreme examples like NK, Cuba and Venezuela.

> right also pushes the surveillance state forward

There's been recent news pieces here about stuff like age verification that is firmly coming from the left.

Both sides can be authoritarian or not. Libertarianism is a thing. And in many places in the world, Eastern Europe for example, anti-authoritarianism definitely has a "right-wing" lean due to a (hated) history of communism.

Linux definitely attracts those who don't like large corporations like Apple or Microsoft, but other than that there's a wide variety of beliefs (or even a lack of beliefs).

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