> I didn't say they don't prop their carmaking, battery or ev industries. I said that I don't buy the argument it's bad for us.

And I explained why it was bad for us.

> Protectionism historically only helps industries in their earliest stages when you need to kickstart them, never when they are mature.

Never is a strong word. You're assuming that the Chinese EV industry isn't still in the kickstarting stages. The goal is to, via subsidies and capability to deindustrialize other parts of the world. Through that lens you can see their actions quite clearly.

As a European you should be particularly worried if you value labor. When you say things like German and Italian economies are export dependent it begs the question: what happens when those exports to their #1/#2 export market (China) collapse, and then China - because as you said of course Germany and Italy aren't willing to tariff Chinese cars - comes in to the EU and then outcompetes German and Italian automakers too?

What does that leave you with? It leaves you with:

  China - dominating EV sales and a massive player in the auto market.

  America - protected domestic industry that's not reliant on exports, little to no competition from China
 
  Japan - serving US/EU global markets and protecting domestic industries

  Europe - Collapse of industrial capacity to make vehicles, maybe with tariffs or import controls will have workers at Chinese factories making cars (with profits and capital of course heading back to the home market). Follows the British model a bit with focus on luxury automobiles (Ferrari, Aston Martin, things like that)

I hear your point about subsidies in American and European markets and how regular people are "left with the bill", but that's mostly because regulators and those working in government are incompetent, by and large, not because there aren't actions one can take. China serves as a clear counter example. And then you could also look at other countries and steps they've taken to shore up their domestic industries or otherwise.