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Xylakanttoday at 7:28 AM1 replyview on HN

There are no absolute rights, even in the charter of human rights, which is about as basic as it gets. The reality is that every right, if regarded as absolute, violates another fundamental right, if regarded as absolute.

Take for example Article 3 of the declaration of human rights:

> Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.

The article already has a collision set up in itself: You have the right to live in safety. But also, everyone has the right to live in liberty. If taken as an absolute, the right of liberty would prevent incarceration of dangerous individuals, violating the other individuals right to all life in safety.

Similarly, other fundamental rights get curtailed: The freedom of speech is in balance with the right to personal dignity of article one and other rights.

Not acknowledging that even fundamental human rights are in a tension with each other is just ignoring reality and will get you nowhere in a legal discussion.

The discussion is not which right is absolute, it is about how to balance the tension between the various rights. And different societies strike a different balance here.

Take for example the right to freedom and liberty. Lifelong imprisonment without parole as punishment is not a thing in Germany. There’s an instrument that allows the court to keep the perpetrator locked up in case the court considers the individual dangerous, but until 1998, this could not be retroactively be applied. There was a major legal upheaval with multiple rounds to the constitutional court to change that and it took until 2012/2013 to find a legal framework that wasn’t declared unconstitutional. To this day, however, Sicherheitsverwahrung is not a punishment, but a combination of therapy and ensuring the safety of society and it’s subject to regular checks if the conditions for the lockup still exist. The individuals are also not held in prisons, but in nicer facilities.

On the other hand, many US states still have the death penalty and are proud of it.


Replies

matheusmoreiratoday at 9:58 AM

> The article already has a collision set up in itself

Yeah, because it's a made up self-contradictory notion with absolutely zero basis in reality. It's the people who believe in "rights" who are ignoring reality. Safety? The world is a dangerous place where you can be randomly killed if you take a wrong turn and no amount of "rights" is ever going to change that. Food and shelter? Simple economics are enough to defeat this, there isn't enough for everybody, rationing ensues almost immediately and suddenly you're forced to decide who's most "deserving" of these resources. Privacy? The FVEY get around it by spying on each other and sharing data because foreigners are always fair game. You can name virtually any right and the inherent contradictions in it are plain to see to anyone willing to go outside and see the world for what it actually is instead of what some "charter" says it should be.

It would be infinitely more honest if these governments simply decided to declare you guilty of whatever you're suspected of when they find your encrypted data. That's what they actually want to do. No need to engage in this song and dance about balancing "rights". If they did this, at least people would see things as they are instead of engaging in this constant abstraction in an attempt to rationalize and justify things by saying that you have the "right" to privacy but actually you don't when it's "in the interests of national security" for you to not have it. That sort of double speak is hazardous for my mental health and I'm tired of engaging in it.