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sfinkyesterday at 6:23 PM6 repliesview on HN

It was, which is why it makes such a perfect analogy.

Surveillance has lots of good and bad uses, and is morally neutral itself. Powerful but neutral. The problem comes when the users use it for bad purposes, and in fact it is so tempting that they can't help using it for more and more bad purposes. If every palantir (either one) user was a "good guy" who refused to use it for bad purposes, it would be a potent force for good, and that's why they were created in the first place.


Replies

OkayPhysicistyesterday at 6:38 PM

I thoroughly disagree. Surveillance is an invasive tool of control, and as such intrinsically immoral. Just like a slew of other immoral actions, it may be a net positive when applied for a greater good, but if not used for anything, it's evil.

This is trivially true to most common moral understandings. If my neighbor installs a camera pointing through my window and into my shower, applying some fancy technique to see through clouded glass, most of us would justly think that was immoral of him, even in complete absence of any other immoral actions facilitated by that surveillance.

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jltsirenyesterday at 8:39 PM

The palantiri were created by Fëanor. The kinslayer whose pride, rage, and desire for vengeance drove most of his people to their doom. The potential to corrupt was always present in them.

In the LotR, Aragorn bends a palantir to his will and uses it for good with great difficulty. He manages to do that, because he is (in addition to everything else) the trueborn king and the palantiri are his birthright. Denethor, on the other hand, succumbs to corruption. While he is a powerful lord with good intentions, he is only a steward, not a king. The right to use the palantiri is not inherent in his being, because he only wields power in someone else's name.

8noteyesterday at 9:12 PM

surveillance creates leverage over people. its not neutral if it creates a power imbalance, especially since its used by the wealthy on the poor.

you can't do surveillance and not learn the bad knowledge, and once youve created the bad knowledge its just a matter of time before it gets into nefarious hands.

a "bad guy" could still hack the "good guys" or palantir itself, and get access to all the bad data the "good guys" have created.

kortillayesterday at 6:44 PM

It’s not morally neutral, the very existence of surveillance has a chilling effect on dissenting opinions.

uoaeiyesterday at 6:54 PM

There are morally neutral technologies, but the unique quality of surveillance data containing PII (and tools to correlate across time and space) means that it's only morally neutral until it is used in any capacity. Which is to say, it is not morally neutral.

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renticulousyesterday at 6:51 PM

If Palintir itself gets hacked, all the data and analysis will be stopped up by others.