alt Hacker NewsThe text mode lie: why modern TUIs are a nightmare for accessibility
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The more you look into these trendy TUIs the worse it gets -- it's like the developers took the accumulation of all the worst practices since the dawn of programming, and wrapped it all into one unwieldy, overweight, under-performant gelatinous blob that threatens to collapse under its own weight.
I've always been a bit mystified by the popularity of TUIs. To me, the power of the terminal is the streaming model. Composible utilities is something that is much less common in GUIs.
I get it that maybe the constraints of terminals force design of TUIs to be more focused on the purpose of the tool than polish, but it's not that compelling of a point to me.
TUIs were supposed to be the simple option. now they're just web apps wearing a terminal costume
This is a well documented issue, TUI vs. windows.
Back in the 90s when most SAP systems switched from AS/400 terminals to Windows NT, people reported massive losses in productivity.
I've never worked on SAP, my mother did. And basically, she went from a fully tabular, function-key based oriented workflow, to holding a mouse, moving around and clicking a lot (tabbing and F keys were lost for many functions).
She showed me how she could go from ESC ESC F4 F3 TAB TAB and she was across the whole system a super speed. And this was a terminal, not the actual system!
The short of the story is this
Windows based application work best for discoverability and new users
Terminal based applications work best for faster, memory based navigation and power users.
I'd agree with this assessment. Moreover, if developers were to stick with the eminently satisfactory CUA (IBM's Common User Access) interface standard and further regularize that then things would be much easier. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Common_User_Access
If developers want to experiment with various UI configs then let them but keep a CUA in the background that can be called upon by machines and humans alike. (Unfortunately, ergonomics has never been a strong point for developers.)
I don't think the issue is using declarative UI frameworks, it's that the rendering engines these frameworks are outputting to are not taking accessibility into account.
I wouldn't have assumed a TUI is accessible just because it's on the terminal. I guess the author encounters people who do.
I am surprised, though, that something like "turning off the cursor" enhances the accessibility.
Mitchell Hashimoto has a great response on lobste.rs https://lobste.rs/s/ifbdw1/text_mode_lie_why_modern_tuis_are...
> It isn't fair to blame TUIs.
> The real problem is that pretty much the whole stack has a terrible AX story.
> First, most GPU-rendered terminal emulators don't engage in system-provided accessibility APIs AT ALL. Because text is GPU-rendered, AX tooling can't "read" it, it just shows up as an image. This applies to Kitty, Alacritty, WezTerm. My own terminal Ghostty is AX-readable (on macOS), and so are others like iTerm2 and Terminal.app (which admittedly do it better than me, we have gaps to fill).
> Second, there are no terminal sequences or initiatives at all for TUIs to communicate AX information to the emulator, so the emulator itself can't do much more than display a blob of text to AX tooling. We need the equivalent of ARIA-style annotations but for terminal cells, runs, and regions. No such initiative exists. Even if TUIs do great things with the cursor, this is going to bite a lot of use cases.
> As an example of combining the above, I've been working on something with Ghostty where we integrate semantic prompt (OSC133) and AX APIs so that we can present each shell prompt, input, and command as structurally significant to AX tooling (rather than simply a text box where the cursor is somewhere else). This shows the importance of the relationship between terminal specs (OSC133), TUIs (which must emit OSC133), and terminal emulators (which must both understand OSC133 AND communicate it to AX APIs).
> The whole stack is rotten. And no one is earnestly trying to fix it (including me, I have limited time and I do my best but this is a WHOLE TOPIC that requires a huge amount of time and politicking the ecosystem and I don't have it, sorry).
Bonus: a simultaneously awesome and horrible reality is that AI is really helping to improve AX here. A lot of AI tooling uses/abuses AX APIs to make things happen. How is OpenAI reading your list of windows, typing into them, etc? Accessibility frameworks! So a lot more apps are taking AX integration a lot more seriously since its table stacks for AI using it... Sad it requires that but the glass half full is more software is doing that.
I use mc as a file manager. I have no idea what you are talking about.
As I said before [0], the same web developers that are the ones that ruined the web are now bringing their Java/Typescript, React mess into terminals where it is not needed.
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Most people don’t care. It just the truth.
Maybe someone should come up with AI for blind people. TUAIs :-)
> The reality is different. Most modern Text User Interfaces (TUIs) are often more hostile to accessibility than poorly coded graphical interfaces.
The Claude Code rendering UI is the first place where I realized the TUI is more like a DOS or Borland UI system rather than a command line interface.
I was poking about CLAUDE_CODE_NO_FLICKER=1 setting when I realized what exactly this TUI is, it is layers of stuff showing up on top of each other with terminal codes.
Ended up reading the Ink Terminal implementation of React
https://github.com/vadimdemedes/ink
Fascinating how it ends up looking Wordperfect or Wordstar from the past instead of pixel based graphics.
The usability for a vision impaired user is about the same, though I remember braille pads for DOS tools (80x25) which work better than all the screen readers which came later.