logoalt Hacker News

The bottleneck was never the code

133 pointsby Anon84last Monday at 10:46 AM76 commentsview on HN

Comments

nayrocladetoday at 12:28 PM

It's hilarious to me to see the same kind of engineer, who throughout my career have constantly bitched and moaned about team meetings, agile ceremonies, issue trackers, backlogs, slack, emails, design reviews, and anything else that disrupted the hours of coding "flow state" they claimed as their most essential and sacred activity to be protected at all costs, suddenly, and with no hint of shame, start preaching about about the vital importance of collaborative activities and the apparent inconsequence of code and coding, the moment a machine was able to do the latter faster than them. I mean, they're not even wrong, but the nakedly hypocritical attitude of people who, until a year ago, were the most antisocial and least collaborative members of any team they were on is still extraordinary.

show 26 replies
jugg1estoday at 12:30 PM

I think veteran engineers have always known that the real problems with velocity have always been more organizational than technical. The inability for the business to define a focused, productive roadmap has always been the problem in software engineering. Constantly jumping to the next shiny thing that yields almost no ROI but never allowing systemic tech debt to be addressed has crippled many company's I have worked at in the long-term.

show 3 replies
frollogastontoday at 1:44 PM

Doesn't add up. I used to spend more than half my time coding, as did others. Besides the obvious cost, that coding took wall-time which meant talks had to wait. Sure a poor collaborator will jam things up a ton, but a team of at least ok collaborators used to be bottlenecked on code.

nilirltoday at 12:18 PM

Bottleneck for what? More features?

I don't think amount of software is what determines whether a company does well.

I don't think capturing quantity of context is that important either.

Now, quality of context. How well do the humans reason?

Then, attitude. How well do the humans respond to bad situations?

Then, resource management. How well does the company treat people and money?

Finally, luck. How much of the uncontrollables are in our favor?

Those are pretty good bottlenecks for a company. I doubt an agent is fixing any of those. At least any time soon.

Antibabelictoday at 12:52 PM

What kind of projects are people working on, where understanding what features the management wants is the only difficult part and the rest can just be "typed out" (or, today, offloaded to an LLM)? If that's what you do, then I'm not surprised so many people on HN think LLMs can replace them.

show 4 replies
rudyp_devtoday at 12:12 PM

I think the argument here misses critical nuance; there is a difference between code used to implement a product and when code _is_ the product.

It goes without saying that agents have little to no product sense in any discipline. If you're building a game or an app or a business, your creative input still matters heavily! And the same is true for code; if the software is your product, then absolutely the context missed by skipping the writing process will degrade your output.

That doesn't mean that writing code wasn't a bottleneck even for creating well structured software projects. Being able to try multiple approaches (which would have previously been prohibitively expensive) can in many instances provide something a room of bickering humans never would have reached.

show 1 reply
tlkantoday at 1:23 PM

One of the bottlenecks has always been the code. That code has been stolen and is being laundered while companies rely on mediocre engineers who have never written anything of value to promote the burglary tools and call the process "writing software".

It is the same as putting an Einstein paper on a photocopier and call the process "writing a paper".

I agree with the point of the article though: code generation does not really work, the results are bloated and often wrong and people already had more features that they could absorb in 2020.

The solution to this mess is to have 18 year olds boycott studying computer science altogether, since the industry (and mediocre fellow "engineers") will treat them like human garbage.

j16sdiztoday at 12:03 PM

(not related to the article)

The flashing red dot on the web page is very annoying. Is there some design reason for that?

edit: I meant the <svg> inside `trail-map-container`

show 4 replies
ZeWakatoday at 12:44 PM

> Producing easily consumable context is precisely the thing humans don’t like to do.

I don't think this sentence speaks for me. This is the sort of thing I love to do.

joriswtoday at 12:26 PM

> Agents that consume context need agents that produce it. Once that loop is running, the organization has a written substrate it would never have produced on its own.

I'm not sure a business is helped by documentation that distilled from (hopefully present) PR descriptions and comments in JIRA, by agents. Or wherever this context is supposed to be reverse-engineered from.

lysiumtoday at 12:06 PM

Can someone explain the title? I think the author illustrates that the code was the bottleneck and it has shifted to context. What am I missing?

show 3 replies
jaccolatoday at 12:42 PM

The company website linked in the article is broken https://www.dottxt.ai/ on (mobile and desktop) Safari. Looks like your cert doesn’t cover the www subdomain.

BrokenBuildtoday at 1:00 PM

I can see the division here already, and the cogs are afraid. As a dev of 25+ years, currently working for a small company who came from a global company, I see both sides. I'm very excited about AI and love to see my projects come to life so much faster. I still love the craft of code, but its always been about the product for me.

luodainttoday at 12:36 PM

The paper hits the nail right on the head, but it misses the mark on the next constraint: how to decide what to build.

In the old days when writing code took up a lot of resources, the constraint was self-correcting since being off in your implementation was obvious enough that the error could be easily seen after three months of work on the wrong feature. Today, you could spend five wrong efforts in the same amount of time that it used to take you to implement one wrong effort.

zabzonktoday at 1:05 PM

> Real programmers don’t document their programs.

Probably true, but I, for one, have always liked documenting how the code I've written should be used, whether programmers calling APIs I've created, or end-users actually making use of a program's executable. I find writing the docs just as interesting and creative as writing code.

lynx97today at 12:07 PM

If thats true, I am sure some C-suite manager knows this already. Assuming management knows what they do, after all, they're getting payed for this. The time where engineer are trying to educate people above them should be over. Management gets payed for the big decisions. If they tank the company, so be it. I no longer care.

spiderfarmertoday at 12:49 PM

For me it was. Solo entrepreneurs are the ones who profit the most from AI assisted development.

show 1 reply
dividendflowtoday at 1:19 PM

[flagged]

bucktracktoday at 1:21 PM

[flagged]