Google broke reCAPTCHA for de-googled Android users

My understanding is that this new reCAPTCHA is basically just remote attestation.

Remote attestation doesn't use blind signatures (as that would be 'farmable') so tying the device to the 'attestee' is technically possible with collusion of Google servers: EK (static burned-in private key) -> AIK (ephemeral identity key in secure enclave signed by a Google server) -> attestation (signed by AIK). As you can see if the Google server logs EK -> AIK conversions an attestation can be trivially traced to your device's EK. This is also why we don't really see and probably never will see online services which offer fake remote attestations, as it will be pretty obvious that the next step of running such a service is getting Google as a customer and having all your devices blacklisted. Private farms probably won't last long either as I'm sure Google logs everything and will correlate.

Unless something special is done with this new reCAPTCHA not only are you locking internet services behind TPM chips but you are also surrendering anonymity to Google. Unless you acquire untraceable burners for every service, the new reCAPTCHA will be technically capable to tying all your accounts across all these services together. Much like age verification. It may appear that the service would need to cooperate to link the reCAPTCHA session to your registration but the registration time alone will likely be sufficient (the anonymity set will be all but destroyed).

I don't use Android right now and haven't used Google'd Android for almost a decade. And I won't. If this is the hill I die on, so be it.

I'm not going to use any sort of hardware attestation, especially one controlled by Google. You shouldn't either, even if you have an unrooted Google-certified Android phone.

Given the way Google is going I'm not sure if my next phone will be Android. I am fully aware that I am probably in the minority here. For me the trust is entirely gone.

I'm failing to see why they didn't just adopt Private Access Tokens (not that they're great either), where they could have at least:

- pretended that it wasn't all about invading peoples' privacy.

- done a good ol' fashioned "but Apple does it"

- pretended to be standards-oriented

- advertised it as something completely transparent to the end-user

Seems like that would've caused a lot less backlash while still achieving the goal of having some form of device attestation -- but I'm guessing that's not the real goal.

This is crossing the line where the governments should step in and ban/fine google heavilly for this monopol behavior

archive.is just asked me for a QRcode scan, I'm so ashame of that crap (it's behind Cloudflare), forcing website visitors to KYC? Are you guys insane!?

the web is ruined if you push for this, this is millions of websites that will suddenly force KYC? What...the...f

https://ibb.co/X9Q6Y84

By KYC, obviously it's because there is very few non-criminal ways to have a SIM without KYC and get a Google account for Playstore without a number, so every website visits will be attached to a real ID.

I don't use a stock Android, right now I literally can't access many websites, this is genuinely crazy.

It's a move to block competitor AI agents while securing access for your own, classic ladder kick. The market for autonomous agents providing services and doing online work will be gigantic so, unless you want your own bots locked out from ie properties guarded by Amazon, CloudFlare, Microsoft etc., you will need a bargaining chip.

I don't know why reclaimthenet hasn't embraced the obvious answer: Simply create a new smart device operating system with a fully disentangled cosmos of programs, libraries, APIs, app SDKs, hardware partners, drivers, trust networks, carrier agreements, app stores, documentation, conferences...

I don't even have a smart phone, I assume there is some sort of fallback behavior?

Time for some lawfare!

Isn't reCAPTCHA a spam? This video I watched recently does a nice history and also was enjoyable to watch https://youtu.be/seX_rDEsP6E?si

If there was any remaining doubt whether Google is evil, this settles that yes it is.

Sites that use reCAPTCHA/Turnstile/etc. have already been broken for me for years now due to neverending captcha/refresh loops.

My ISP regularly changes everyone's IP, and I apparently share an ISP with people who suck, so I get flagged just trying to do all sorts of normal things. Some examples:

- I've never bought anything from Etsy but I'm somehow banned from even viewing their site at all.

- Discord immediately bans me any time I try to create an account.

- Can't buy flights from Delta, always gives a non-descript error.

- Can't buy concert tickets, it thinks I'm a fraudulent buyer.

- Most CF sites produce a "Sorry, you have been blocked" page, or just loop.

- Trying to buy products on a shopping cart will have my order silently flagged/canceled for "VPN usage" (I don't use one).

- Some sites/programs block me for being on the DroneBL or similar lists I did nothing to get onto, and have verified many times that it's not really coming from me.

I just take my business elsewhere... eventually I'll probably just stop using technology at all.

I think it's possible to run the Play Services in an emulator, faking the device type. Google doesn't seem to use the platform attestation for now.

For Decades the huge tech companies basically faced no adversity whatsoever. Now for the first time in their existence the massive returned investments in AI they are experiencing ... we will call it pain.

I would say it will be interesting to see what they do but I think rent-seeking, oppression, human rights violations would be more apt.

They were of course trustworthy proviers while they were untouchable but now I know how things are gonna go.

And soon desktop OSes will follow, if you don’t have TPM you won’t be able to browse half of the internet.

The gate to the pig pen is closing…

Please stop calling Android Linux. It's a marketing lie that continues to disappoint, including here. You're holding Linux back substantially by claiming Android is part of it. Just because it has Unix doesn't mean it's Linux as MacOS is also Unix.

Google seems to be putting yet another brick in the garden wall.

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Related:

Google Cloud fraud defense, the next evolution of reCAPTCHA

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48039362

Google Cloud Fraud Defence is just WEI repackaged

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48063199

Fascinating how posts critical of google continue to fall off the frontpage