logoalt Hacker News

nekusartoday at 3:30 PM3 repliesview on HN

The problem with Unions is its just the labor. Its the people who do the work. They don't have the money or the political power.

The Bosses and Owners have the money, the property, the machines, and political connections.

And power/money builds more power/money. And because its a boss vs worker arrangement, the worker's power will invariably get whittled down year by year.

The real solution here isnt socialism or communism. Its Worker Cooperatives. This makes the worker = the boss. And the previous conflict between the 2 go away. And the workers can make better decisions with all the information.

For example, when a dictatorial company announces layoffs, it just happens. But losing people also loses knowledge of the company, which is bad long term. In those cases, a worker cooperative could explain the situation, and make a decision together to temporarily cut wages INSTEAD of laying people off.


Replies

matchbok3today at 7:59 PM

What is the tradeoff when layoffs are harder to do?

Layoffs happen when bets don't pay off. If you want a world where people are guaranteed a job, look at Europe. Also, they don't innovate and have no interesting industries.

They go hand in hand. Companies need to be able to innovate. And yeah that means hiring and firing teams as they see fit.

The second part of your proposal always, always goes unsaid: companies will hire less under a scheme where layoffs are harder.

Cut wages? That sounds horrible and demoralizing. I guess you've never led a team before. Please explain how that company would remain competitive in the marketplace when their salaries are 20% lower than a competitor? They lose talent, fail as a business, and suddenly everyone is out of a job.

OkayPhysicisttoday at 4:04 PM

> And power/money builds more power/money. And because its a boss vs worker arrangement, the worker's power will invariably get whittled down year by year.

Unions used to solve this issue by occasionally dragging a boss out of their home and killing them in the street, or kneecapping scabs. To end such violence, we enshrined in law pretty strong protections for unions, so that they could fight in the courts rather than in the streets. A couple generations of prosperity later, business folk and their bought politicians who wouldn't know Chesterton's fence if it fell on them decided those protections were inconvenient. And so here we are.

show 1 reply
ardacinartoday at 5:51 PM

You real solution is literally the workers controlling the means of production.

show 1 reply