alt Hacker NewsThe current closed source frontier models are more capable than the latest from DeepSeek. But is the capability difference enough to justify a 30x price difference?
"Frontier models" are caught in a financial dilemma of their own making --- they have spent such huge sums on development and as a result, they may have inadvertently priced themselves out of the market.
Energy costs are a huge factor for AI. He who has the lowest energy costs will likely be able to dictate market prices. And fossil fuels dependence doesn't look to be advantageous for AI.
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> they may have inadvertently priced themselves out of the market.
Last week we were all talking about how Anthropic has too much demand, how they had to rent a data center from a competitor, and how the limits they’ve put on their service to deal with the demand are making users angry.
DeepSeek is cheap because they’re working hard to attract users.
The open weights models released for free weren’t free to train. It’s a loss leader to get attention to try to sell you something in the future.
The prices we pay for tokens right now are set by supply and demand, with some being sold at high premiums and others at a loss. Some models are given away for free after the companies spent money on researchers and compute.
> lowest energy costs will likely be able to dictate market prices
This is a good insight. I think everyone has seen that chart China's electricity generation going parabolic vs the US. That combined with cheaper yet equally good talent means at least in that segment, the closed labs won't catch up anytime soon
I’ve been on this issue for a while now, models are not going to matter as much in the future. Pure energy cost will be the determining factor in who is most successful. The US just cannot build cheap energy the way other China can and at the scale that China will build it. 10 years from now it will be seen as the single source of advantage
Energy costs and privacy.
Currently the projects I am involved require devs to use approaches like Ollama, Foundry Local and co if they happen to have good enough hardware, picking the best alternatives out of https://www.canirun.ai.
> "Frontier models" are caught in a financial dilemma of their own making --- they have spent such huge sums on development and as a result, they may have inadvertently priced themselves out of the market.
I feel it'll wind up like the dotcom/fiber bubble. Way too much money poured into it, lots of expensive bankruptcies or write-offs, and a readjusted market sea level.
This sounds to me like the Bitcoin bros. Yes, the first-gen technology was very energy-heavy, but afterwards people (bitcoin maxis and people who held the bag) kept insisting that all new technology is “shitcoins” and that everyone should just buy bitcoin.
Actually, platforms that serve many customers can bring down the costs tremendously through caching, and don’t need the AI credits as much: https://safebots.ai/costs.html
Historically the winners in software have a flywheel that turns faster with more users. Facebook the more of your friends on it the better the product was. Google tracked how long users were on pages to improve search.
The frontier models are going to win that way. They won't feed your code back into the system but they will track which code you keep and what code gets a "try again claude".
They're not going to lose on price. No consumer software ever has because ultimately it's not that expensive relative to salary and the marginal cost is 0.