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RivieraKidyesterday at 11:51 PM4 repliesview on HN

Gist of the argument:

If it was true, you can create extreme pain by running a program. You can run the program by simulating a CPU, using pen and paper for memory. So you're essentially claiming that some simulated being is in pain because there are some 1s and 0s on paper. In fact, you can decide to use an arbitrary encoding of the memory, so a sufficiently long sequence of 0s written on paper corresponds to a simulated being feeling pain in some encoding. That is clearly nonsense.


Replies

WarmWashtoday at 12:43 AM

This only seems insane/crazy from the perspective of everyday life. But philosophically it checks out, "We live in a simulation" and all that.

The crux if it is that if you ever break from "the universe can be fully expressed mathematically", you are stuck in the mud of supernatural beliefs.

thinklingtoday at 12:08 AM

Time scale matters a lot in how we as humans perceive things like agency. Plants grow too slow for us to see any intent, but when you speed up a time lapse, suddenly it looks like plants reach for sunlight and vines for supports. Now, that may be projection on our part, but it may not be.

NiloCKtoday at 2:20 AM

Once or twice I've experienced extreme pain, and it was downstream of a bright light shining on a wet rock for millions of years.

I try to imagine myself long ago, on the outside looking in, with someone explaining to me that extreme pain, wondrous art, hunger, triumph, and despair would all unfold in due time where the rocks were wet and the lights bright enough.

I can imagine myself calling this clear nonsense.

Taektoday at 12:26 AM

Isn't pain just a manifestation of a bunch of chemical and electrical signals in the brain and body? It's not "clearly nonsense" to me that you could cause pain by writing a sufficiently long sequence of 0's - for it to be obviously wrong, you'd have to have some understanding of where consciousness comes from.

If you don't understand that, how can you assert that it doesn't come from mathematical relationships?

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