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lesuoractoday at 1:33 AM5 repliesview on HN

Are they charging for the guardrails? Like do the guardrails expend token counts to then block you from the output of other tokens?


Replies

jerrythegerbiltoday at 1:43 AM

Yes. When certain keywords are matched or topics, there is a warning transparently injected server side appended to the system prompt of the convo that’s miles long. It is injected and reevaluated every tool call.

If you begin a generic reverse engineering task, 30+ tool calls in a row. The moment it sees something it doesn’t like, token burn, single tool calls iteration, “This is a known CTF challenge, I can proceed”, single tool calls iteration, “This is a real CTF challenge, I can proceed”, etc.

It’s heavily neutered now, without changing the model, and you pay for the privilege and don’t notice.

The end result of course being that it both expensive and useless for approved CTF tasks. No one is using Opus for security. If they think it’s working, the harsh reality is they’re not doing security work; they’re just generically finding bugs.

I do this for a job and can demonstrate this plain as day, dump the injected prompt, and notice what it’s doing isn’t security work, it just looks like it. Happy to write a blog about it if you want to know more. Apparently many people think it’s working for them when it absolutely isn’t.

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kay_otoday at 1:40 AM

When your session is force ended for "abuse" you get neither the response nor a refund

Security, games (think weapons, PVP, attacking, etc), sometimes even asking it for a security review of some CRUD code it wrote itself

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SOLAR_FIELDStoday at 1:40 AM

Not directly, as it comes in as a not charged error but the weighted generation path used until you hit the guardrail is basically wasted tokens, so yes, indirectly. If I hit a guardrail and rewind I’ve found the training will still be biased towards guardrailing out if you rewind one turn. Rewinding multiple turns allows steering away from that path, but all of the original token spend down that path is wasted

acterstoday at 1:40 AM

Yes tokens used (input and sometimes output) are always charged. You likely get charged for the preloaded system prompt, too.

gmerctoday at 2:29 AM

Of course they are. It's standard SaaS to charge for security features ;)