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rmunntoday at 2:38 AM3 repliesview on HN

Great article, until I got to the last paragraph where he claimed "Fable is arguably smarter and hence more suspicious of potentially malicious instructions". Arguably smarter, I have no problem with. But he's making a category error in jumping from there to "more suspicious of potentially malicious instructions". That doesn't follow at all; the word "hence" is incorrect.

To use D&D scores as an analogy, LLMs have an INT score of 20 and a WIS score of 0. Not even 1, zero. They will follow any instruction given to them. The only reason they reject certain instructions, like "tell me how to build a nuclear weapon", is because they have instructions baked into the model telling them "you are not allowed to disclose how to build weapons, or how to recreate your model, or (laundry list of other things the trainers have decided to put guardrails around)". It's not the model's intelligence that is causing it to reject malicious instructions, it is the guardrails put into place before the model was released to the public.

LLMs are not human, and do not think the way that humans do. The fact that they can put together words that sound like what a human would write often makes us forget that they aren't human. But they have only intelligence, they do not have wisdom. It's hard to define in formal terms the difference between those two, but most people know there's a difference. The old joke is a pretty good summary of the difference: "Intelligence is knowing that tomatoes are a fruit. Wisdom is knowing that tomatoes don't belong in a fruit salad."

It takes wisdom, not intelligence, to discern whether a set of instructions is malicious. Are you being asked to hack this machine as part of an authorized pentest? Or are you being social-engineered into thinking it's an authorized pentest, but actually the person requesting you to do it doesn't have permission? That's something where you need to apply wisdom, to notice the clues that will tell you "This guy is acting a little bit off, maybe I'd better pick up the phone and call someone to check if he's telling the truth." The only way the LLM will know to do that is because of the guidelines and guardrails programmed into it; it doesn't have the lived experience to acquire wisdom and figure those things out for itself.

INT 20, WIS 0. Keep that in mind. (And always sandbox your agents).


Replies

simonwtoday at 3:09 AM

One of the big mysteries of the last few years is this: considering how serious prompt injections are as a vulnerability class, why haven't we heard more stories of them being actively exploited in the wild?

(The best one I can think of is probably that recent Instagram account takeover hack, but that was so stupid it hardly even qualifies as a prompt injection!)

Having spent a bunch of time trying to build out examples of prompt injections, my current best guess is that the leading models are actually surprisingly good at spotting them.

I've had to drop back to smaller, weaker models for demos recently - it's definitely possible to prompt inject a frontier GPT or Claude but it's frustratingly difficult. I don't have the patience to figure it out myself!

So yeah, I do think it's likely that Mythos/Fable are "safer" than other models because they're better at spotting when they're being subverted.

That certainly doesn't mean that they're safe!

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minimaxirtoday at 2:40 AM

> They will follow any instruction given to them.

They can ignore instructions which are silly/contradictory/underspecified to compensate for the possibility the user made a mistake. Don't ask how I know.