logoalt Hacker News

jcalxtoday at 2:38 PM0 repliesview on HN

Maybe turn-based roguelike deckbuilders aren't the best for this, but I actually like some correlated randomness in some games, as it adds a new hidden mechanic to explore. In Hades 1 there are some (presumably unintentional) RNG manipulations that open up high-level techs for seeded speedruns:

- Hades 1 is a series of "chambers", or enemy encounters, where some layouts are faster than others [0]

- chambers (and other things like enemy spawns, boons, etc.) are "randomly" picked by an RNG with its seed normally unknown to the player (well that, and other factors [1])

- you can see the per-chamber RNG seed using mods [2], and manipulate it with seemingly meaningless actions [3] — e.g. breaking a pot (a mundane, cosmetic environmental item) increments the RNG seed by 1

- this leads to the existence of "routed runs" [4] — very fast speedruns enabled by very deliberate actions that can be replicated by a skilled player [5].

- anecdotally, with enough practice, skilled players can also recognize chamber patterns in unseeded speedruns and give themselves better odds at more favorable chambers by manipulating the RNG (although tbh the ability to recognize this on the fly is a little dubious)

So the invisible correlated RNG seeding adds in a higher skill ceiling for experienced players, while not really taking anything away from casual players.

Another game with this kind of RNG mechanic is Super Mario Bros. 3 — there's an excellent (86-minute, fyi) Summoning Salt video about the history of speedrunning this game and dealing with the "random" Hammer Bros movement (@27:15 to skip to that part).

[0] https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vR6NaU9v1-raeibk...

[1] https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vSl9RGGyPbNqCnTL...

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHdt35TDvNY

[3] https://www.speedrun.com/hades/guides/jxpkj

[4] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBRTQkoOZ4k

[5] https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1fNlBhBOsCz6092GUnsIt...

[6] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EsFyogVvkw