alt Hacker NewsAsian AI startups launch Mythos-like models
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Fugu Ultra [0] is not actually a model, it's a system (harness in the cloud?) that routes to several models, looks like it's a bit like OpenRouters Fusion [1].
"Rather than a single monolithic model, Fugu is a learned multi-agent orchestration system: a language model trained to route tasks across a swappable pool of underlying models and to recursively call instances of itself." - https://openrouter.ai/sakana/fugu-ultra
The "Mythos-like" talk is getting kinda annoying. Us normal people have no way to compare it outside of looking at benchmarks
They have an impressive set of investors [1]. Also, HN Headline [2] from the other day with 100+ comments.
My cinic take is, if the model is decent it would be hard to disprove their claim of it being Mythos-like, since now Mythos is unavailable.
Without reliable benchmarks, they are Mythos-like only in the sense that they accept text as input and produce text as output.
I'm expecting a ban of "foreign" llms due to "safety concerns" before the year is over.
It will have nothing to do with the actual performance. But anthropic has set the bar for mythos-like systems, and whatever meets that loosely defined bar will be unsafe for the public.
I doubt it will rival Mythos or the upcoming Sol, and if it's not open weights it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things. Still, I applaud the asian LLM efforts and hope they keep up the pressure on the americans.
wtf even is “mythos-like” when smaller models can find all the same kinds of issues if you just prod it a bit more
First impression: Third-party benchmarks or gtfo. Personally, I've never heard of either of these companies before. We're just supposed to take their word that they've matched the best models on the market?
Sakana describes their model as a "Orchestration Model." Does that mean that it's actually a bunch of different models glued together?
Feels like I need to repeat myself more than once a day now: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48697258
> These companies providing tokens, whether SOTA or not, that want to IPO are so fucked as time goes on.
>Can't sell their SOTA models, only slightly better than the open source models for the models they can sell, cost 20x to 50x for good models, a TAM that consists almost solely of developers, with no customer of theirs actually boasting increased profits as a result of AI...
> I fear their time to IPO may have passed.
What on earth could Anthropic and OpenAI Pivot to now?
I think it is time that we had a UN-sponsored standards body dedicated to bench-marking the newest models from around the world, for everyone's benefit.
Excellent. I'm very thankful the asian/chinese don't give a fuck about the US government. It feels good to have a competitor.
So now as a regular American we are behind because gatekeepers saying super intelligence is too scary
It was bound to happen soon.
YES! Now things become even more interesting. US, your move.
Given the national security implications, it's no surprise that Japan and China are rushing to build sovereign models post-ban. But when these startups claim parity with "Mythos," could it be that they are just optimizing for very specific inference tasks? I wonder if we are seeing the real battleground shift from raw training scale toward specialized inference.
asian is bad wording. this is a japanese startup backed by khosla ventures. japan is an ally of west. the title makes it sound like a chinese company did this.
I tried the Fugu models with some real world tales in C# and unity using mcp and open code. I exhausted the $20 plan 5 hour window in one prompt to review my theme system and plan some color changes. So I upgraded to the $100 to see the implementation and result. Well the result was worse than Opus, incredibly slow, and I ended up exhausting the new 5 hour window and have used 35% of the weekly now and it hardly created something opus was able to do at a fraction of the time and cost.
Do what you wish with this info, but it seems to be a complete waste of $$.